There are no amounts given, or weight measurements, just the list of herbs. The notes say it is for training, but not specifically what kind of training, or if it is a liniment, or to be taken internally.
Anyone got any ideas what this formula does?
When you smoke it…
It summons the DEMON!:eek:
It sounds like some sort of resperatory purgative formula, which would remove stagnation in the lungs or something of that sort. It may also promote general qi circulation into the extremities.
This is likely a jow formula
as for weights and measures, well, I guess that would depend on what you want. Not a very useful formula unless it has weights and measures though. some of these ingredients are inert and others you would want to measure the quantities carefully.
anyway, it is very likely a dit da jow formula.
Royal Dragon,
Carthamus, aka Safflower (Mandarin Hong Hua which means, “red flower”) activates the blood, disperses blood coagulations and relieves pain. It effects the heart and liver meridians. I doubt DJ’s theory that the oil is used as a substitute for alcohol. Normally, the leaves of the plant are used in DDJ formulas.
Coptis (Huang Lian) is a rhizome (underground root) and can be used to heal the skin.
Richard A. Tolson
not saying it’s a substitute for alcohol. saying that it is a vehicle for the jow itself as opposed to alcohol.
this formula looks like it would have more of a plaster consistency than a liniment for instance because of the safflower and the frankincense and myrrh which are highly resinous.
definitely would be goopy. 
Sorta. The Myrrh reduces inflammation on it’s own. Western medicine concurs. One of my Jow formulas use all of these ingredients and a few more. The Frankincense and myrrh dissolve into the alcohol quite seamlessly over time. It isn’t oily or thick.
If you used a gallon of vodka to two ounces of everything you listed, plus two ounces of bitter orange peel and astragalus root, you’d make my basic bruise liniment. You can also add menthol crystals if you insist on that “patent medicine” feel; I don’t like it, so I don’t.
I’d use Korean Ginseng though instead of the pseudo, and just use as much as you can afford (it can be pretty expensive). Leave everything for three months before using. After a year, strain everything but the ginseng roots which can be left in indefinately (it’s why you can get away with less too).
Chinese herbalists aren’t quite as exacting as you’d think. Normally they just throw a few handfuls of everything into a jar.
I have seen pseudoginseng in formulas for injuries to be used topically because it reduces inflamation.
Here is what my materia medica sayes
“Reduces swelling and alleviates pain: The herb of choice for traumatic injury. Used for swelling and pain due to falls, fractures contusions and sprains”
Korean Ginseng is a TOTALLY different herb, and cannot be used as a substitute in any way, shape or form. Korean Ginseng is an adaptogentic tonic and has NONE of the properties of Pseudoginseng. It is more of an over all health tonic. It won’t function in a jow.
By substituteing Korean Ginseng, you have removed one of the most important herbs in your jow…and replaced it with something useless for your purposes. In addition too that, you are wasteing good, and expensive Panax Ginseng, when you could be reaping the bennifits by making tea out of it and drinking it prior to practice.
I’ve found that canadian or american ginseng is preferable when drinking it as tea before or during practice. It doesn’t raise as much yang and actually has cooling (yin) qualities to it.
The heavy panax ginseng is better for pre-cold season and for older dudes to increase yang energy and keep the johnson a little stiffer and the eyes a litter sharper.
bring on the panax then…
Siberian ginseng (although it’s not actually ginseng) is an even hotter tonic than the Panax ginseng…but it does not seem to do as much. it’s weird, for me I get more over all athletic abillity from the Panax, but the siberian is more stimulateing, to the point of causeing some dizznyness of i drink too much. It seems more like a caffiene substitue than a real Ginseng.
Siberin Ginseng seems to have me bouncing off the walls more, where as the Panax does not seem to do that, but gives more “on demand” strength, endurnace and remarkably, better flexibillty.
The Panax Ginseng (true ginseng) is good for stance work, and Long Fist forms, the Siberian gives a hyperness that is good for a lot of fast paced kicking and such. Good for TKD people.
I mean much older.
Like “need viagra” age.
dude, you’re still in your thirties right? You don’t need panax internally.
Start using it when you are approaching your senior years.
My training partner tells me that young chinese men don’t consume it but older ones do. For the reasons I stated.
he’s also told me that tere is a weird belief that if you consume to much you don’t actually die but go into a state of stasis and people think you are dead. Now, me being the non superstitious type don’t really buy into that, but there are qualities to ginseng that do slow the aging process and the trade off is a rigidity within the organs. not a dryness, just a stiffening and slowing. weird stuff.
The American Ginseng does not do anything for me though. It’s more cooling, and better after practice to help with recovery. The Panax stuff is really strong, and really improves the Kung Fu for the day.
When I was young, I would use the Panax and bell Pollen before practice, and then the American and Royal Jelly to help recover after.
I stopped this when I stopped training 100% 6 days a week, except for a short time yearslater when i injured my back. I did it again at that time to help heal.
Now i reallly don’t use herbs unless i am sick. I just don’t have that competitive need to out do my peers anymore, so ulltra peek performance isn’t the goal of my training. That makes most herbal formulas not nessasary anymore.
Although the last girl I was with told me She hadn’t been rocked for 4 hours straight like that since she was 19 (I am 39), so i guess some of that stuff is still in my system after all these years. 
Well you learn something new every day. My herbalist told me not to bother with the pseudo ginseng since it wasn’t as strong. Could be he dosen’t know what I’m using it for… could also be that he wanted to sell me the more expensive stuff.
Thanks for the tip RD.
Ur Welcome!!
Most likely he did not know what you were useing it for. If you were taking it as a tonic, he is right.
great thread!
Ahhh… the smell of herbs and debate in the air!
Just to add to the mix (and clarify a bit)
Frankensense and Myrrh - A potent blood invigorating pair (Mo Yao and Ru Xiang) not for binding anything at all - just breaking up stasis.
Dipsaci Asperi - Xu Duan - a Yang tonic, Xu Duan translates to “connect what is broken”, referring to its near miraculous ability to heal bone and ligament injuries.
Radix Pseudoginseng - San Qi - also a potent blood invigorator, may be used internally or externally to stop bleeding and to remove stasis (like a bruise). There’s no relation at all to the tonifying functions of other ginsengs - this herb is specifically used for healing and invigorating blood… don’t substitute it or else you lose one of the most important Dit Da herbs in your formula.
Carthamus - Hong Hua is a flower, not an oil (although I know what you’re talking about, DJ) in this formula and is also for tonifying and invigorating the blood. Usually it is paired with Tao Ren (semen persicae) to powerfully break up blood stasis… given Tao Ren’s absence, I’d say this formula is to be taken internally. This is further reinforced by the presence of ginger root (sheng/gan jiang) which is used mostly in formulas to ‘warm the middle’ - i.e. offset the coldness of the other herbs on the stomach and further invigorate.
Seems like a good formula to me to encourage healing, strengthen bone and reduce soreness after training… if you take it to a Chinese herbalist, he/she should be able to prescribe the dosages appropriate to your constituion.
good luck!
herb ox
sorry, can’t help you unless u type the chinese names.. pin yin.
=/
What does the Coptis do in this formula?
Topically, Coptis clears Damp-Heat. It also has some anticoagulant (read break blood stasis) and coronary dilatory effect (read blood invigorator). it shows anti-infalmmitory effect in labs, probably due to its ability to invigorate blood and clear heat.
EDIT: Coptis is rather expensive compared to the other berberines (the common “huangs”) and can be somewhat easily substituted for.
Interesting. We wil have to see in 12-18 months what we have. Till then it’s soaking in home made rice wine, tripple distilled in my freezer to be roughly 50% alcohal (Best guess)