I am pretty sure that quite a few of you on this forum use Dit Da Jow to treat bruises, broken bones, etc. I wanted to start a thread to see what herbal formula combinations you found useful, assuming you made your own linaments. There are a ton of formulas out there, and it would be cool to know which formula combinations worked for what types of injuries. Great if you could share your experience… especially if you feel which herbs are “must-haves” in a formula for it to be effective.
(Let’s focus on custom formulas, and not over-the-counter generic formulas like Five Photo Brand, etc… thanks.)
I have a few formulas. I always use Taa Yan, Mut Yeut, and a few others to remove stasis and promote circulation. I can post a picture of the Chinese characters for them when I get to my formulas. Of course no Jau is good without Hung Fa.
Thanks, Phil. I also use those ingredients frequently. In addition, I also like to include San Qi as one of the main blood movers, along with Mo Yao.
By the way, what is your thought of using Camphor which I find quite a few people using in their formulas? I usually am hesitant to use this only because of the heat component, and if I did use it, I try to counter it with something like Bo He as a cooling agent. In fact, I frequently include Bo He in my formulas to minimize the heat that could form so as to facilitate the healing aspect. Do you use coolers and which ones do you use?
I think it is good to use because it is definitely something that a person feels and therefore can encourage circulation. The only time I have used Zhang Nao in a formula, I also used Bing Pian-- albeit the synthetic type-- another one which can be felt.
In terms of hotness, though, Camphor does not begin to rate with chuan jiao-- another ingredient in some herbal plasters you see out there.
Along those lines, I sometimes use Gan Cao, and Shi Gao in addition to some toxic (painkiller) herbs. Never used Chuan Jiao in these linaments, but I can see your point. That herb is pretty warming, just like another one I sometimes use, Chuan Xiong. So, other than just giving the patient the tingling feeling of something happening, what else would you use camphor for?
Does anyone here have a preference of white liquor over dark in their formulas? I used to buy “home made” Saam Jing Jau in NY Chinatown but since I moved to Detroit I’ve been using Vodka for lack of a SJJ source. I’ve been told that white liquor is better, but I’d like to hear opinions from you guys (generic).
I prefer not to use camphor in my Jau. Not because of smell but because of it’s properties.
I let my Jau stand for at least 3 months before use. What say you guys? The older the better of course. Also, I noticed one commercial Jau that I used to buy in NYC was made with rubbing alcohol. I have also used Tincture of Arnica which can be purchased at a drug store when I was out of Jau.
White vs dark wine… which is better… hard to say. Ask ten different Dit Da specialists, and there is a good chance the answers will be evenly distributed.
From my own experience, most either use the dark wine or pure vodka. From a TCM perspective, dark wine is an excellent blood mover, and hence would seem to be the better choice. I myself use the dark-colored Shiao Xing Rice Wine (drinking quality, which is a higher quality, versus the cooking version). I have found that to be very effective in the treatments I have administered. One of my good friends, a 70 year-old Dragon style master and also a TCM/Dit Da specialist from Hong Kong and trained in Dit Da in China, uses pure vodka most of the time. He says that its characteristic is extremely powerful and is even better than the dark wine. I haven’t tried using vodka yet, but do plan on trying that someday just to make some comparisons.
Regarding soaking time, in general, 90 days to 180 days is the rule-of-thumb for the herbs to take its chemical effect on the wine. I have been told that the longer you soak, the stronger the wine gets, but I also have friends who say that once the reaction between the wine/herbs is completed, soaking any longer won’t make any difference. However, also depending on the herbs, some herbs are meant to be quick absorbants and not meant for soaking… you basically heat up those herbs in the wine right before treatment and then apply them. Soaking those herbs would actually neutralize those herbs. But these are rare situations and most often you will find herbs being soaked for 3mos to 6mos.
I dont sell jow though I share mine when I want to with some students if they ask.
I have stored batches- but no longer make my own…nor do I get over the counter. I get mine via a martial artist who has been in CMA much longer than me- he is familiar with many martial jows
particularly from two great(non wing chun) CMA artists. He works witha Chinese herbalist in LA to get it just right—appearance, smell, touch and effectiveness.Very helpful and no bad effects- except for signing on in net forums.
My hands are not scarred or calloused but they have above average resistance to injuries(the da in context of dit da jow)
I would never use one with rubbing alcohol.
I also use some Indian martial mixes for my own purposes. Indian martial arts also use(d) pre and post activity lotions and liniments of various kinds.
Again, I do not prescribe or sell.
Sometimes I go to a Chinese herbalist abd accupuncturist in my area who is from Tianjin and has considerable experience and training and evn teaching experience. First part of his training
was like 2/3 of med school.
Also- btw given the outrageous cost of medical care in the US- I think preventive care is the best way to go and I have put my chips on that…while not closing the door on other alternatives including MD/allopathic. Three generations of MDs on both paternal and maternal side. Dad wasa superb diagnostician- but his jaw dropped when I showed him the places where I had been acupunctured. Different paradigms.
Incidentally, he could tell in autopsies if excessive use of aspirin existed from the pock marks in the stomach lining.He always wondered why aspirin and some other things were so easily available while for other things you have to pray to the gods.
((My almost 90 year old mpther has knee pain. Ibuprofen does zilch for her. Mobic can help but the HMO wont go for it- money.
What is managed is the money- not the care))
I know the limits of what I do and if I thought I needed sutures
I would go to a surgeon.
Joy… great background you have… and not to mention wise words of advice. I would love to learn more about Indian herbs someday, opportunity permitting. Thanks for sharing.
I just came across a really interesting thread in another part of this forum that talks about someone with an ACL problem being helped by Dit Da… thought I’d share the link, in case you have not read it. This is what has always amazed me about TCM and especially the healing powers of herbs… seen enough of similar situations in my lifetime to make me a believer, not to mention actual cases I have treated as well.
This has been a fascinating thread to read! I had no idea that making home made Jao is so prevalent. I’d love to try making a general purpose one sometime, but how would I go about it? Can any of you gentlemen point me in the right direction (book wise or otherwise) to find recipes and sources for the ingredients (herbs).
Joy, you mentioned a friend of yours who works with an LA Chinese herbal specialist. I live in LA, and I ownder if it might be possible to get in touch with him?
Here is a link to an article posted by someone on the subject. It is a pretty easy-to-read article on Dit Da Jow, and will help you create your own. It also has a pretty generic formula in it, that, judging by its ingredients, I think should work pretty well. The only herbs that I might add to the formula to make it a bit more effective are pain killing herbs (one would be sufficient). When you go to an herbalist to get the herbs, ask him to recommend a good one for you to add to the formula.
I just read that thread you linked to in your post. That was very cool. I had a similar experience years ago in NYC. I had pulled a tendon in my shoulder taking a poor fall in Aikido. My shoulder hurt for over a month without getting any better. I could barely raise my arm above my shoulder level without excruciating pain.
A visit to my regular Western doctor at the time resulted in an x-ray and a confirmation that I had pulled a tendon in my shoulder and it was inflamed. He told me to take it easy on the shoulder and it would heal by itself in a few months. Meanwhile I was not able to train, and the pain was affecting my work as well.
A frined of mine referred me to Kenny Gong, in NYC. He’s a Chinese accupunture and herbal specialist who also happens to teach Chi gung, Hsing-i and Pa Kua. He’s well know in the NYC area for being very good at treating Martial Arts injuries, and indeed my Aikido Sensei was one of his patients (though I only found this out upon my first visit to Mr. Gong.
In any case, he treated me with accupuncture, and rubbed some kind of jao into my shoulder afterward. He vigorously rubbed my shoulder and started to work my shoulder by rotating my arm. Within about five minutes he had my shoulder moving through the full range of motion. After that he stopped and asked me to move my arm on my own through the full range of rotation. I was amazed! Only at the very top position of my arm (and stretching it straight up at that) did I feel any pain at all, and it was very minimal compared to the excruciating pain I felt before coming into his office.
Mr. Gong told me that because I was young (late 20’s at the time), that I would not need any further work. Had I been older he said I might have needed one or two more visits, but because I was still young I would be fine. I’ll never forget that it was a Friday afternoon, and he said that by Monday all trace of pain would be gone. He was exactly right. Three days later the pain was completely gone, and I’ve never had a problem with my shoulder since
(hehehehehe)