Hendrick and Company tgreads all here.

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
41

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1086037]Are you serious?? I mean, get out of the lab and just train bloody hard on the wooden man for a few months and you will feel the changes. That’s proof in itself without the math ;)[/quote]

See but thats the thing, you train “bloody hard” on anything and you’ll see results. What makes training on the wooden dummy any better than training on a resisting opponent or training in the air?

Wing Chun is about efficiency, correct? So refining your training methods to make them more efficient and cut out what isn’t efficient, is just as important. You can do that without the scientific process, but you can get to that point a whole lot quicker, with it.

[quote=]FWIW The kind of attitudes that hold Martial Artists back are the ones that havn’t even tried the practise themselves thoroughly (or even correctly) and dismissing it on hearsay and ill mannered advice.[/quote]

Please, I’m pretty sure just about every person on this forum has used a wooden dummy extensively. No one is dismissing it, so calm down. The point is, if you’re going to say: “In my experience, this has helped me, blah blah blah”, then cool. If you’re going to say “This definitely helps this, that, and the other thing” stating it as a fact, then its common sense that you prepare to back up your statements with some kind of evidence.

[quote=]If all you want is to do is prove things with science go and employ a scientist to do it for you because I can’t waste my money. :confused: And if it was all so easy to do why can’t you do it for us all for free?[/quote]

The scientific method does not require a “Scientist” per se… Just a basic education…

[quote=]Come round to Flystudio and link me up to a machine! Anything to help research and prove older methods imho.[/quote]

Maybe someday I’ll make it out there. But the point is, if you utilize the scientific method you can at least catalog results and more intricately explain the details of your successes or failures in training. By cataloging your training, it can be compared to other methods and their gains over the same time period.

Without that, we learn nothing. We’ve got a million and one people who claim from personal experience this, that, and the other thing. Well, we learn nothing by accepting everyones claims at face value. Furthermore, we do ourselves and our students a grave injustice by accepting traditional training methods as the best on “Faith”.

42

[QUOTE=AdrianK;1086271]…We’ve got a million and one people who claim from personal experience this, that, and the other thing. Well, we learn nothing by accepting everyones claims at face value. Furthermore, we do ourselves and our students a grave injustice by accepting traditional training methods as the best on “Faith”.[/QUOTE]

Now I totally agree with you here :wink:

[QUOTE=AdrianK;1086271]But the point is, if you utilize the scientific method you can at least catalog results and more intricately explain the details of your successes or failures in training. By cataloging your training, it can be compared to other methods and their gains over the same time period. [/QUOTE]

I’m not exactly going to share my journals with everyone. One reason behind my Flystudio project is to share ‘some’ of the things I have picked up over the years in a visual way. I’m not attempting to prove anything, or say what is ‘best’ or not. I’m simply sharing what I know about the way I have been taught.

[QUOTE=AdrianK;1086271]See but thats the thing, you train “bloody hard” on anything and you’ll see results. What makes training on the wooden dummy any better than training on a resisting opponent or training in the air?[/QUOTE]

IMHO No you can not get the same results in the thin air as you can training on wood. That’s like saying you can gain experience of interacting without interacting, fighting without fighting. Now I agree that you could learn about the process without doing it, but actually get the same results? No.

43

The issue here are

20CH and 6DFV .

such as the animation here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAyxRna_2lU

if some one do a 3 D computer graphic plot of a human motion in the 3 D space.

the trajectory of the 20CH and 6DFV of the human in motion will reveal the coverage of the motion handling. That is fun to watch and to get a good understanding.

One could even transfer the Iceman’s clip into the 20CH and 6DFV animation to see it.

it is advance biomechanics and totally scientific.

44

Spencer,

Based on 20Ch and 6DFV

observe your body transformation or conditioning which shows in
http://www.youtube.com/user/FLYstudio108?feature=mhsn#p/u/1/XVFkN5EiUqk

your body cant take the motion of Ice man because your cultivation on your habitual body structure and momentum handling coverage is less then Iceman’s.

Your type of training is great.

however, it is like those is the Shaw’s brother martial art movie story line that the traditional sifu who knows his lineage in a small village, meet with the big bad guys from the city and get beat up.

your training is un adequate to face Iceman base on 20Ch 6DFV. So there is no point to proof what is already a know.

WCK needs to evoke the 20CH 6DFV otherwise, it is going to run the same story again and again as the shaw brother movies. look around there is not surprise very rare people use WCK in mma match that tell the story isnt it?

45

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1086298]The issue here are

20CH and 6DFV .

such as the animation here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAyxRna_2lU[/QUOTE]

I’m sure the clip is great but it’s blocked in the UK by National Geographic! Any other clips that show what you mean?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1086298]your training is un adequate to face Iceman base on 20Ch 6DFV. So there is no point to proof what is already a know.[/QUOTE]

Fact is I aint training for competitive fights like good old Chuck did. That’s not may game. But to come to your conclusion from watching one clip of me on the wooden man is a bit premature I think. And what you you mean by ‘face’ the Iceman??

Totally understood if you’re talking of 6DFV vs 6DFV, he would kill me! But that isn’t the objective of WCK is it? To over power an opponent? Force against force? So I would approach ‘facing’ Chuck another way…

46

Fact is I aint training for competitive fights like good old Chuck did. That’s not may game. But to come to your conclusion from watching one clip of me on te wooden man is a bit premature I think. And what you you mean by ‘face’ the Iceman??

20Ch 6DVF has nothing to do with competitive or not.

It is about how much coverage one has in one’s training to build up one’s habit in structure and momentum.

Totally understood of you’re talking of 6DFV vs 6DFV, but that isn’t the objective of WCK is it? To over power an opponent? Force against force? So I would approach ‘facing’ Chuck another way…

Any art without the full coverage of 20Ch 6DFV means partial. Got nothing to do with over power, force against force…etc

If fact, to not do force against force needs even advance 20Chn 6DFV cultivation.

47

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1086358]Any art without the full coverage of 20Ch 6DFV means partial. Got nothing to do with over power, force against force…etc

If fact, to not do force against force needs even advance 20Chn 6DFV cultivation.[/QUOTE]

Oh. I thought you were suggesting that I couldn’t stand in front of the Iceman with my wooden man set, which I agree with if you view me as a static person doing a short routine.

But you’re recommending standing in front of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkqRwdbDeAM

With this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s1ucajOONY

:confused:

48

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1086274]
I’m not exactly going to share my journals with everyone. One reason behind my Flystudio project is to share ‘some’ of the things I have picked up over the years in a visual way. I’m not attempting to prove anything, or say what is ‘best’ or not. I’m simply sharing what I know about the way I have been taught.[/quote]

Jeez, imagine if Issac Newton or Benjamin Franklin chose not to share their knowledge with anyone :smiley: Why all the secrecy?

[quote=]IMHO No you can not get the same results in the thin air as you can training on wood. That’s like saying you can gain experience of interacting without interacting, fighting without fighting. Now I agree that you could learn about the process without doing it, but actually get the same results? No.[/QUOTE]

Not really, working on the wooden dummy is as much “Fighting” as working in the air is. The only way you learn fighting is by fighting/sparring. The other methods are ways of training your body and reactions. But the act of fighting is how you perform in a random situation where you need to change and adapt.

49

I am aware of chi flow, and I am aware of meridians, but I am also aware that we have no control over them other than to disrupt them by violent means. We have no mental control over them. That would add up to internal gung fu, which I do not believe exists. Barring accident where physical injury might disrupt the actual flow of chi, everyone from birth to death will have open meridians. I also do not believe that these meridians have anything to do with martial skill. I do believe it has more to do with our overall health.

50

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1086360]Oh. I thought you were suggesting that I couldn’t stand in front of the Iceman with my wooden man set, which I agree with if you view me as a static person doing a short routine.

But you’re recommending standing in front of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkqRwdbDeAM

With this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s1ucajOONY

:confused:[/QUOTE]

Seriously, I suggest you re read all my previous posts in this thread to have a clear understanding on what I am present.

51

[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1086402]I am aware of chi flow, and I am aware of meridians, but I am also aware that we have no control over them …[/QUOTE]

20Ch 6DFV is about how to use them not how to control them.

52

Looking at your website and Hung Suen history claims, I would have expected a bit more Mo Duk.

I don’t have a website. I make no Hung Suen claims. I leave history to Messrs Chu, Meng, Santo and their ilk and let them bicker amongst themselves. WTF are you on about?

Is Mo Duk related to Donald? Does Mo Duk quack as furiously as you when people don’t take everything he said as pearls of wisdom with way too much gravitas to be skeptical about or too obvious to ask for supporting detail about?

I’m a smarta$$. Sue me. It only really comes out on the face of dubious and unsubstantiated claims presented as axioms. Well maybe not only then, but that’s a definite major trigger.

so please share what knowledge you have about how the training on wooden men helps open 2o channels or not.

I have heard no one other than you claim that it does. I can’t see how it would, short of stimulating certain acupuncture points on the arms and feet, and perhaps on the outside of the knee in some of the kicking sets. If it “opens” meridians it must act on certain points which affect qi flow through particular meridians, the exact ones as yet undisclosed.

I took some guesses on what they might be based on basic TCM theory. I doubt it could “open” all 20 channels, except maybe indirectly via the nourishing cycle, as a number of the meridians would not be directly affected by dummy practice, unless you have some secret secret sets which involve hitting the dummy arms with the point in the roof of the mouth or the spot between the anu$ and genitals. These points join two of the extra meridians, as you of course know.

If dummy practice does as you claim, it must surely be an extremely blunt instrument. Why not just go to an acupuncturist and have him insert a few needles to achieve the same affect without the hours and years of arduous effort?

I guess the bruising and trauma from the dummy might stimulate the points longer than treatment with needles, but there are clinical ways of bruising to affect that with greater precision also.

How am I doing so far?

But you claimed the inside knowledge here, not me. The burden of proof is not mine.

Getting all petulant and ad hominem when someone asks for more detail to support your claim doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in that claim’s validity. More indicates that the claimant doesn’t really know what he’s talking about. Feel free to prove me wrong. I could respect that and would apologise for my scepticism, even my smarta$$ness.

Jeez, imagine if Issac Newton or Benjamin Franklin chose not to share their knowledge with anyone

Hardly the same thing. They had stuff worth reading, which on what has been presented to date seems unlikely in this case. As stated above, I would be happy to be proved wrong.

i love the WC forum

Ah, you and me both :smiley:

53

Seriously, I suggest you re read all my previous posts in this thread to have a clear understanding on what I am present.

The action you suggest cannot possibly produce the stated result.

54

[QUOTE=anerlich;1086497]I don’t have a website. I make no Hung Suen claims. I leave history to Messrs Chu, Meng, Santo and their ilk and let them bicker amongst themselves. WTF are you on about?[/QUOTE]

So, what’s the WCAcademy link in your signature? I thought that may be your own school or something? Sorry if I misunderstood!

[QUOTE=anerlich;1086497]Is Mo Duk related to Donald?[/QUOTE]

:smiley: I actually laughed at this one! You are quite a funny guy. No point explaining it now coz I can’t see through my tears of laughter!

If you had a Sifu, you would know what it is…

[QUOTE=anerlich;1086497]If dummy practice does as you claim, it must surely be an extremely blunt instrument. Why not just go to an acupuncturist and have him insert a few needles to achieve the same affect without the hours and years of arduous effort?[/QUOTE]

I actually asked Hendrik a question first

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1086497]Out of interests, and in a genuine attempt to try to contribute to your thread, would you consider this type of training useful to develop and open your channels? I have found it to help, but that’s just me… Demo @ 1:05
http://www.youtube.com/user/FLYstudio108?feature=mhsn [/QUOTE]

Then asked another question

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1086497]Does everyone here agree that the training itself opens certain meridians by physical ‘touch’ on wood? Allowing us to increase speed, power and accuracy until our skin, tendons and bones are nourished and strong?[/QUOTE]

So all this ‘I made a claim’ bollox is actually quite funny, but like I said I think you’re a funny guy :wink:

With respect, you sort of answered my questions for me so thank you for your level of input.

55

[QUOTE=GlennR;1086202]And i wish he’d hit the mute button[/QUOTE]

http://instantrimshot.com/

:smiley:

56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9L5vr3HKdE&feature=related

57

If you had a Sifu, you would know what it is…

I have WC training under a Sifu, Rick Spain, and know what Mo Duk is (not that I see it that often on this forum, though in saying that I am throwing stones in a glasshouse).

So, what’s the WCAcademy link in your signature? I thought that may be your own school or something?

I don’t own a school. I do teach at that school (my instructor’s school) regularly., though these days nearly all BJJ rather than WC. It would be innacurate to suggest that the opinions presented on its website exactly match my own. Students are encouraged to think for themselves.

Then asked another question

Ah, I thought you were making a statement (as a rhetorical question) rather than asking Hendrik a question. I hope you have learned by now that receiving a direct answer, or any real answer at all, is unlikely. AS demonstrated by this gem:

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1086746]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9L5vr3HKdE&feature=related
[/QUOTE]

Eddie Bravo and Rogan spend much of their lives in a special herbal dimension, but still make more sense than the “20ch 6dfv” posts from the OP (a possible exception being the first chapter of Mr Bravo’s “Mastering The Twister”, some of the strangest MA-related writing out there, and that bar’s even higher then Eddie is most of the time).

With respect, you sort of answered my questions for me so thank you for your level of input.

Fair enough. A gracious reply. THe question actually made me think, despite the fact that IMO it was largely a mental exercise, following “logic” based on very dubious premises.

Originally Posted by GlennR
And i wish he’d hit the mute button

I also tip my hat to Glenn’s skill at repartee.

58

I also tip my hat to Glenn’s skill at repartee.[/QUOTE]

Shucks Andrew… youll make me blush.

59

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1086746]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9L5vr3HKdE&feature=related[/QUOTE]

But if Joe Rogan had seen YOUR lineage Hendrick, with its 6 degress of seperation 24/7 quasi dimenionsal bable im sure he’d be amazed, im sure he’d withdraw his words… not

Its people like you, that are the problem in his (and my) eyes.

Go pitch your soap box in a Hippy commune

60

kind of makes me glad that the lineage I follow talks in plain english and keeps things simple, I’d keep getting my vectors and channels mixed up :wink:
If folks are worried about opening their meridians, I charge very reasonable rates for acupressure in the UK, or if you don’t fancy the flight you could try Taoist meditation and exercise which is specifically designed for the purpose.
According to what I’ve learned over the years with regards to internal energy, using it in a martial sense is about putting it in to the part of your body that you want to hit with (or transmiting it beyond your body if you believe it can be done) which is done through mental intent.