Good Traditional Kung Fu

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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[QUOTE=dimethylsea;979143]Uki,
Since when have I been one of the people hating on you for throwing something new and different out?

When I ask a question it is NOT because I’m trying to “one up” someone or insult them.
I’m usually asking a question because something they have said clued me in that they may not understand something.
It’s OFTEN the case that I’m trying to make sure they understand something that actually supports their argument or position if they’d only listen closely.

You say “are you familiar with - it doesn’t matter if your face is torn off”.
I am VERY familiar with the ripping and gouging techniques. One thing I like about having JKD friends is that we work setups for this stuff. I know you’ve got ridiculous grip strength from juggling those iron balls.

When I asked “Do you understand BJJ’s positional theory?” I was asking an honest serious question. It’s one that is fundamental to the way the JKD people approach Kino Mutai.

So let me ask you again, and please don’t treat me like the enemy..
“What do you know about BJJ’s positional theory?”[/QUOTE]jesus… i felt like i just got scolded by the penguin… LOL… no… i am not aware of any bjj postional theory concepts - simply implying that i may understand WHAT you are talking about, just under a different heading.

and yes… i have done grappling before - the stand up to ground submission kind. :slight_smile:

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and yes… i have done grappling before - the stand up to ground submission kind.

gasp… an honest answer from UKI what the fu(k is the world coming to… pigs are flying somewhere below. I agree uki that most times things are “labeled” under different terms.

so as for my question. I presume you tend to stand fight more than ground fight then, or do you play it by the ‘what ever comes comes’ outcome? just another honest question again. No attachments to it, just curious to your knowledge that’s all. :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE=uki;979158]jesus… i felt like i just got scolded by the penguin… LOL… no… i am not aware of any bjj postional theory concepts - simply implying that i may understand WHAT you are talking about, just under a different heading.

and yes… i have done grappling before - the stand up to ground submission kind. :)[/QUOTE]

I’ll be your penguin. My sh&t runs Linux. Ubuntu all night long!

Anyway.. the BJJ people have this thing called “positional theory”. Basically they define their art in terms of who has what position with respect to the other guy. Then they try for a submission out of the best possible position.

The short version is (better positions higher on the list)

He’s prone. You are on his back. (GREAT! TIGER STYLEZ!!!)
He’s supine. You are on his stomach.
He’s supine, You have one knee on his stomach
Side control (look it up)
Half-Guard (don’t worry about this one)
Guard (don’t worry about this one)
In Side Control (don’t worry about this one)
He has side control.
You are supine. He has his knee on your stomach.
You are supine, He is mounted on your stomach.
You are prone, he is mounted on your back. (DEAD ANTELOPE STYLEZ!!!)

See how this forms a neat little diagram of all the ways crap can emerge when someone goes off their feet?

The nice thing is that BJJ teaches all this positional theory, and how to get from one position to the other.. but most people focus mainly on the submissions.

You don’t like submissions, I don’t like them either. But here is the neat thing.. just like the MMA types have taken this positional strategy and applied striking to it (ground and pound).. the JKD people have taken this positional strategy and applied biting and gouging to it.

It’s alot like harimau silat that way. The BJJ insight is that all the technical ability in the world is almost useless without a good grasp of position and how to get there. But you can take the same lesson to heart also…

If you are dynamite with the clawing, gouging, biting and ripping.. then add in a grasp of positional theory.. it ENABLES your Kino Mutai or gnawing upon them like a hungry tiger.

It is really good to play with BJJ types.. cause it builds your positional ability. When I roll I almost never go for a sub, I practice transitions, escapes from subs, and mobility. Let someone else look for the armbar.. I want to figure out how to go from bad positions to good positions…

Tigers want to be on TOP don’t they? They have an instinctive grasp of positional strategy (minus the crazy guards and what all).

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It is really good to play with BJJ types.. cause it builds your positional ability. When I roll I almost never go for a sub, I practice transitions, escapes from subs, and mobility. Let someone else look for the armbar.. I want to figure out how to go from bad positions to good positions…

best way to learn BJJ or grappling in my opinion. work the subs later get your position to maximize leverage and get the movement down first.

honestly for the best movement on the ground a wrestling background is the best for maximized positioning on the ground IMO. A wrestler learns from day one not to go to the back, to maintain control, and use maximum leverage. These qualities, I find, are the best for ground game. The only thing i find wrestlers tend to need help on is leading into the shot and following through and finding themselves in a guiotene (spelling) or inverted choke for more specific. but as for a true BJJ you see them a lot of times going to there back. Wrestlers that learn BJJ tend to stick to there background of maintain dominate position on top. Which in my book is much better than taking back. but everyone has there own game when it comes to such things. :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;979162]
honestly for the best movement on the ground a wrestling background is the best for maximized positioning on the ground IMO. [/QUOTE]

Wise words indeed.

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[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;979162]best way to learn BJJ or grappling in my opinion. work the subs later get your position to maximize leverage and get the movement down first. [/QUOTE]

It is a good way to learn yes, and probably the best way for beginners at the ground game (I’m certainly no expert to say for sure, but the experts (BJJ BBs) preach this constantly. It’s like a mantra “position before submission” to them).

I was sitting in the JKD guy’s office the other day and we were watching Vunak clips. Vunak is talking about having the front mount and punching the guy vs. locking in with the face bite. He pointed out that if the guy upa’s and sweeps to top while you punch.. your situation just deteriorated. But if you are biting his face and he sweeps.. you are still biting his face!

Cool insight… but you have to know enough about BJJ position theory for it to make sense or be usable.

And rolling for position is a good way to get that insight. Tiger cubs do this, They “roll” with each other under mother’s watchful eye as soon as they can crawl to the teat.

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[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;979159]gasp… an honest answer from UKI what the fu(k is the world coming to… pigs are flying somewhere below. [/quote]i do my best to be honest, so your comment is a little off base here. :stuck_out_tongue:

I agree uki that most times things are “labeled” under different terms.
the plague of our times… mis-communication.

so as for my question. I presume you tend to stand fight more than ground fight then, or do you play it by the ‘what ever comes comes’ outcome? just another honest question again. No attachments to it, just curious to your knowledge that’s all.
i am the backed into the corner stand up fighter… which means i do my best to avoid being backed into a corner, but when i am… to be honest, ground work comes naturally, i wrestled in junior high school. much like the feline’s themselve, i have an uncanny knack of always being able to get on my feet, i find it highly doubtful that anyone would be able to keep me on the ground for any substancial period of time… just saying. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=dimethylsea;979160]I’ll be your penguin. My sh&t runs Linux. Ubuntu all night long!
[/quote]i was referring to the penguin in the blues brothers. :smiley:

See how this forms a neat little diagram of all the ways crap can emerge when someone goes off their feet?
it seems i have already assimilated this concept into my understanding of the martial arts… yes.

Tigers want to be on TOP don’t they? They have an instinctive grasp of positional strategy (minus the crazy guards and what all).
we are quite tenacious to say the least. :smiley:

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traditional kung fu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO6I5OZpRDI

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[QUOTE=bawang;979173]traditional kung fu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO6I5OZpRDI[/QUOTE][B][I]LOL[/I][/B]… you truly need to catch up on the times. :smiley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_PfhV_Hns4

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i have a serious question
rockets and cannons have been in china for 1000 thousand years
why dont traditional chinese martial art schools teach them?
has any civilian chinese martial arts ever taught ancient , not modern firearms? or bows and arrow?

does chinese civilian martial arts have anything to do with the chinese military at all? were they similar at all?

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[QUOTE=bawang;979178]i have a serious question
rockets and cannons have been in china for 1000 thousand years
why dont traditional chinese martial art schools teach them?[/QUOTE]i have too serious question… atomic weapons and airships have been around thousands of years before china became a nation… why china not teach this?? :stuck_out_tongue:

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Because ,you are a aging construction worker who gets drunk and gets beat to the ground by police… then brag about it on the internet … cydonia and pyramids of mars, niburu space aliens from india from outer space, juggling.
smiley face smiley face

i talk like u lolol

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[QUOTE=bawang;979183]because you are a aging construction worker who gets drunk and gets beat to the ground by police then brag about it on the internet[/QUOTE]better than being a wannabe triad homie whose avatar looks like he just got a plunger stuck up his a$$. :slight_smile:

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i never knocked up some fat broad and got stuck with 10 kids
then stay up at 3 am trolling the internet

you get routinely beaten to a bloody pulp. ur job is laying rocks on the ground. how is ur life better than mine?

speaking of triads, when i walked down toronto chinatown you look like one of the random hobos i saw in the morning with bloody faces because they owed someone their crack monehs. i saw one with red hair he looks like your twin but more healthy. he was fatter with more teeth

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[QUOTE=bawang;979185]i never knocked up some fat broad and got stuck with 10 kids
then stay up at 3 am trolling the internet[/QUOTE]wa you say?? you have 10 fat wife’s that roll on you at 3am when they wake up to use your internet connection??

[QUOTE=bawang;979185]you get routinely beaten to a bloody pulp.[/quote]what don’t kill you only makes you stronger.

ur job is laying rocks on the ground.
that’s right, rocks you probably can’t even pick up.

how is ur life better than mine?
where do i begin…

[QUOTE=bawang;979185]speaking of triads, when i walked down toronto chinatown you look like one of the random hobos i saw in the morning with bloody faces because they owed someone their crack monehs. i saw one with red hair he looks like your twin but more healthy.[/QUOTE]what was that?? the triads beat you like a red head because you owed them crack monehs?? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=bawang;979185]he was fatter with more teeth[/QUOTE]more teeth than me?? funny… i have all four wisdom teeth and lost my last baby tooth a few years ago… try again homie. :slight_smile:

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no proper come back

i win internet fight

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[QUOTE=bawang;979188]no proper come back

i win internet fight[/QUOTE]i bet you trip over your own shoe laces.

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the secret is peppermint schnaps
60% alcohol

what prize do i win? can i borrow your wife?

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[QUOTE=bawang;979190] can i borrow your wife?[/QUOTE]perhaps if i was married. :smiley:

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when did u divorce ur goat? did u eat it for christmas