[QUOTE=GlennR;1212144]They aren’t WC punches[/QUOTE]
Close enough to get my vote, when the shoulders stay square, and the fists are vertical, elbows in natural position, structure is plenty good enough for good wc arm punches.
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1212164]By short power, I’m assuming you are meaning not using much or any body rotation, is that correct?
And the problem with using boxing when he doesn’t have contact would be what?
I’m confused. I thought you just said this would be boxing if he hit the guy without making contact first.
So, where would an example of a WC guy throwing WC punches be? Would this be it?
Wing Chun guy attempting to use wing chun punches in fight.[/QUOTE]
Yes, to the short power thing.
The problem with using boxing with WC is the stance. One advocates turning and weight transfer from leg to leg (here’s a tip, that’s where the power comes from) and the other (WC) uses a different method based starting at SLT .
Have you boxed and done MT? Though they use the same punches, the stance is a bit different as one throws kicks and knees. See the point, depending on what you use and how you are going to use it dictates what will and won’t fit the style.
Nothing wrong with hitting the guy at range initially, but if it goes on the WC should get into his range.
The difference between Belford and the WC guy is that the WC guy has WC options. From my view I can see he has maintained his stance, maintained his range and could still defend and attack using all his WC tools.
With the belford clip I se a guy hitting a guy who runs backwards and he chases throwing punches. At no stage could he cleanly kick for example, looking at the WC guy I think he could due to him maintaining his stance… Belford looks like he is almost leaning.
Hope that helps
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1212169]Close enough to get my vote, when the shoulders stay square, and the fists are vertical, elbows in natural position, structure is plenty good enough for good wc arm punches.[/QUOTE]
Could he throw. Kick while he is doing them?
[QUOTE=GlennR;1212170]Yes, to the short power thing.[/QUOTE]
OK, got it. Of course, “short power” will never be able to produce the same force as a more rotational type of mechanics.
The difference between Belford and the WC guy is that the WC guy has WC options. From my view I can see he has maintained his stance, maintained his range and could still defend and attack using all his WC tools.
So those punches are a good representation of what WC punching should be like, is that correct? I just want to get that straight in case someone asks me to show what WC punching should look like.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1212171]Could he throw. Kick while he is doing them?[/QUOTE]
So, it’s not a WC punch if you can’t throw a kick at the same time?
Another clip of Danijel a Croation student who posted a simple bag work out…yes a PB guy.
Great, a bagwork clip to go with all the chi sao clips.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1212179]Great, a bagwork clip to go with all the chi sao clips.[/QUOTE]
At least those are a bit more realistic than the chi sao chest slaps.
Of course, they don’t seem to be real WC punches because it doesn’t look as if he can kick at the same time he is punching.
The guy is IMO basically saying you need to be relaxed under pressure to win ring fights.
And for that you need to do lots of contact sparring and perhaps a few earlier ring fights, and have familiarity with and practise counters to your MMA opponent’s likely arsenal of attacks.
Not exactly revelatory or unique to WC, but something many WC people don’t do. Much easier to boast about streetfights and trash other lineages on the internet.
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1212180]At least those are a bit more realistic than the chi sao chest slaps.
Of course, they don’t seem to be real WC punches because it doesn’t look as if he can kick at the same time he is punching.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t bother watching the vid, I have a huge backlog of PB guy vids from this forum.
I think Glenn is questioning whether the guy can throw kick/punch combinations, rather than whether he can perform an effective simultaneous kick and punch.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1212182]
I think Glenn is questioning whether the guy can throw kick/punch combinations, rather than whether he can perform an effective simultaneous kick and punch.[/QUOTE]
In that case, they must have been WC punches then because there were many points in that sequence that he could have thrown kicks.
I have to add that it sure seems weird to me that a WC punch is based upon whether or not you can kick somewhere in there.
I guess I’m going to have to add this to my list of reasons of why it is so rare for people to be able to use wing chun in realistic situations.
Belford looks like he is almost leaning.
Leaning forward is actually not a bad strategy in an MMA fight, as it makes it easier to sprawl and the fighter thus less vulnerable to leg shoots.
The WC stance used by many WC practitioners who never work takedown defense is almost ideal for an opponent skilled at leg shoots.
Once takedowns enter the game, lots of things change.
If you want to win an MMA fight, go train at an MMA gym. Trying to prove “Wing Chun works in MMA” or “Wing Chun is better than MMA” is a fool’s errand. Fighters win fights, not styles and you need to train with coaches and partners experienced in that particular arena.
I have to add that it sure seems weird to me that a WC punch is based upon whether or not you can kick somewhere in there.
The subject of the thread is performing effectively in MMA.
WC is allegedly superior in its “interruptability”, i.e. whether you can modify your attacks based on the other person’s reactions.
If you’re throwing those chain punches and can’t stop them to knee, or more likely, sprawl, when the other guy shoots, to cite one example, you are not going to have a good night. Being able to set up punches or takedowns with kicks might be a useful skill to have, too.
In that case, they must have been WC punches then because there were many points in that sequence that he could have thrown kicks.
If you say so, I can’t see a bagwork vid revealing the fine points of how to deal with an Anderson Silva or Big Nog, so I’ve not bothered looking.
I guess I’m going to have to add this to my list of reasons of why it is so rare for people to be able to use wing chun in realistic situations.
We await the publishing of this list on a blog as a counter to the original article with bated breath yawn
[QUOTE=anerlich;1212182]I didn’t bother watching the vid, I have a huge backlog of PB guy vids from this forum.
I think Glenn is questioning whether the guy can throw kick/punch combinations, rather than whether he can perform an effective simultaneous kick and punch.[/QUOTE]
Exactly Andrew, WC should have the options of both without having to adjust the stance, I don’t see that in the Belford clip
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1212183]In that case, they must have been WC punches then because there were many points in that sequence that he could have thrown kicks.[/QUOTE]
I don’t see that at all, he would have to re adjust to throw a kick, the WC guy in the clip doesn’t have that same problem
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1212184]I have to add that it sure seems weird to me that a WC punch is based upon whether or not you can kick somewhere in there.
I guess I’m going to have to add this to my list of reasons of why it is so rare for people to be able to use wing chun in realistic situations.[/QUOTE]
Now you’re taking the pi55
And if you’re on here just to create a “list” I’ll leave it to you.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1212170]Belford looks like he is almost leaning.[/QUOTE]
You can’t have speed if your body is vertical. The leaning can let the ground to pull your body. The ground pulling can give your the momentum. You can use your momentum to run your opponent down. To be able to run your opponent down is the highest level of MA skill which has no “style boundary”.
When your opponent is moving back, you want to pull him back. You don’t want to kick him away.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1212193]You can’t have speed if your body is vertical. The leaning can let the ground to pull your body. The ground pulling can give your the momentum. You can use your momentum to run your opponent down. When your opponent is moving back, you don’t want to use kick.[/QUOTE]
Rubbish.
You’re not trying to run down usain bolt, you’re ( in the clip) trying to hit a guy running backwards.
And why don’t you ant to use the kick?
Why would you want to limit your options?
Why would you want to commit your balance forward in a striking art? Unless you like eating uppercuts.
What is thre not to get about the effin clip, he gets hit, runs backwards, Belford chases him, hits him and wins.
How is this supposed to represent an entire style of martial art in the eyes of some?!?!?
Honestly, it’s like the iq level here has dropped 40 points
[QUOTE=GlennR;1212195]And why don’t you ant to use the kick? [/QUOTE]
How much can your kick be able to hurt your opponent when his body is moving back? Most of your kicking force will be cancelled out by his backward body movement. The “head on collision” is good for the striking art. The “rear end collision” is not.
IMO, the spirit of the “chain punch” (or 1 step 3 punch, 2 steps 6 punches, … whatever you want to call it), the moment that you can land the 1st punch, you want to land as many punches as you can until his is down.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1212193]You can’t have speed if your body is vertical. .[/QUOTE]
Somebody forgot to tell the best sprinter in the world this fact:
