[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;820691]Nope, Victor had his chi in the right place :D[/QUOTE]
Goes without saying.. 
[QUOTE=k gledhill;820688]2 hands in rotation along a self clearing zone , done at the beginning of every form and maneuvered by chum kilâŚsome think its a hi lo w double block called gaun sao ? why do double block before every form ; ) its an attacking offensive way..[/QUOTE]
At least someone here is talking of Chum Kil!! 
Surely Wing Chun practitioners know that this is the form for developing âpowerâ? Itâs funny really that Iâm agreeing with Kevin here as we have had our cross-words, but heâs talking sense!
Except for the quote above.
The âcross-armâ you talk of here IS Gaan Sau my friend. The answer you really wanna know is why is it done before EVERY form?
Hmmm⌠I have my âtheoryâ if you really wanna know Kevin!
Other than that, itâs Chum Kil all the way for me people! Iâm not saying that is all you need, but itâs the best starting point youâll find in any Martial Art to begin developing power, as this is simply why it was created.
not gaun sao.? âŚis tut sao one gaun sao trading for the other ? draw a line with your wrists x the imaginary plane before you , this plane is our striking line , but how to work it ? WHY to work it 
its not as simple as A- >B guys can do A<-B back and trade punches âŚ
not gaun saoâs⌠if you empty your cup you may find it.
. if you empty your cup you may find it.
Groin cup ???
[QUOTE=YungChun;820685]Well the match I am referring to involved the attacker hitting using linear strikes in rapid succession into the center or core of the opponent, which drove him across the octagon and into la la land.. Conceptually identical to the tactic I am talking about.[/QUOTE]
I have seen most of his fights and I am pretty sure I know what fight you are talking about but his fighting style was clear in many fightsâŚ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5FJjX9CeDI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j--gzYpGpnw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0uAqHPhlYM
You can clearly see him twisting his upper half of is body and using more than just his arm for generating power. What makes his style so effective is the sheer force and speed he over powers his opponents. My honest opinion this isnât very practical or realistic for most people in a average situation.
I found the fight I think you are talking about.. its probably the one with wanderlei. Given a second fight it probably would not go the same way. You canât overpower and be faster than everyone , every time and catching everyone off gaurd⌠JMO although allot of fights are won on the streets that way (normally with the bigger person winning).
[QUOTE=k gledhill;820726]not gaun saoâs⌠if you empty your cup you may find it.[/QUOTE]
Emptied many times K (in the âmindâ sense sanjuro :D) and I still see Gaan Sau. We practice âGaan Sau Toi Wanâ as a set to develop this central axis you speak of, for attacking and defending, but the key word is Gaan, which can mean to cultivate. Commonly, I believe most Lee Shing Family practice this movement during certain Hei Gung sets, to develop/cultivate Hei (Chi).
Objectively, if you leave the left hand in its first position while the right lowers, sink on the left knee and angle yourself to find the commonly practised (and seen) Gaan posture. Used to cover all paths when you canât actually see whats coming, and a signature of a certain Wing Chun ancestor maybe.
So, therefore, to generate power you must first learn to cultivate power.
From what little I âthink I knowâ, I tend to use a heavy pole for this type of training, and sometimes just a well heavy pair of blades (back in the day of course)
[QUOTE=monji112000;820762]
You can clearly see him twisting his upper half of is body and using more than just his arm for generating power. What makes his style so effective is the sheer force and speed he over powers his opponents. My honest opinion this isnât very practical or realistic for most people in a average situation.
[/QUOTE]
Of course Vitorâs striking wasnât just arm power.
I think you believe you canât generate body power from any movement other than rotating your body.
Vitor didnât twist that much. He wouldnât have been able to walk forward and rapidly punch at the same time if he twisted his hips a lot.
And he still had enough power to knock Silva back.
Twisting as much as you can is not practical. Thatâs not boxing.
[QUOTE=monji112000;820762]
I found the fight I think you are talking about.. its probably the one with wanderlei. Given a second fight it probably would not go the same way. You canât overpower and be faster than everyone , every time and catching everyone off gaurd⌠JMO although allot of fights are won on the streets that way (normally with the bigger person winning).[/QUOTE]
Is there a lot of point doing stuff thatâs intentionally slower and not overpowering?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;820730]Groin cup ???[/QUOTE]
in your case a dribble cup catch all that drooling
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;820786]Emptied many times K (in the âmindâ sense sanjuro :D) and I still see Gaan Sau. We practice âGaan Sau Toi Wanâ as a set to develop this central axis you speak of, for attacking and defending, but the key word is Gaan, which can mean to cultivate. Commonly, I believe most Lee Shing Family practice this movement during certain Hei Gung sets, to develop/cultivate Hei (Chi).
Objectively, if you leave the left hand in its first position while the right lowers, sink on the left knee and angle yourself to find the commonly practised (and seen) Gaan posture. Used to cover all paths when you canât actually see whats coming, and a signature of a certain Wing Chun ancestor maybe.
So, therefore, to generate power you must first learn to cultivate power.
From what little I âthink I knowâ, I tend to use a heavy pole for this type of training, and sometimes just a well heavy pair of blades (back in the day of course)[/QUOTE]
common misunderstandingâŚnot gaun saoâs its only done low to stop beginners lifting the elbows when doing the line to x and strike on in rotation, same with tut sao ..somethink tut sao is a way of escaping a grab, only a fool would think this.
why extend x at the wrists before every form ? to make the line we strike on..how we do this and how we work the idea is VT . once you see this way you wont go back to gaun saoâs âŚever ; )
[QUOTE=k gledhill;820807]..somethink tut sao is a way of escaping a grab, only a fool would think this.
why extend x at the wrists before every form ? to make the line we strike on..how we do this and how we work the idea is VT . once you see this way you wont go back to gaun saoâs âŚever ; )[/QUOTE]
What is this tut sao? (translation?) Iâm not too familiar with this term, as dialects vary.
I can honestly see what youâre saying, as Iâve read this explanation of x hands many times. Iâm not disagreeing with you, Iâm trying to share another view from another family. I believe the set to be Ip Mans signature, but donât take my word for it, just as the Fist is Wing Chuns. Ask around.
My idea obviously isnât yours k, but Iâd still be open to learning how you generate power with your VT as this is something Wong Shun Leurng was known for.
Well I certainly didnt make it up I never heard this kind of thinking either..but who taught WSL ? a simple action unlocking a way of freefighting , instead of crap as t & dale like to point out who can blame them ?
"in response to this ⌠What is this tut sao? (translation?) Iâm not too familiar with this term, as dialects vary.
I can honestly see what youâre saying, as Iâve read this explanation of x hands many times. Iâm not disagreeing with you, Iâm trying to share another view from another family. I believe the set to be Ip Mans signature, but donât take my word for it, just as the Fist is Wing Chuns. Ask around.
My idea obviously isnât yours k, but Iâd still be open to learning how you generate power with your VT as this is something Wong Shun Leurng was known for. "
some call it senk sao /tut sao âŚshaving hands ..nothing to do with shaving drawing a line in rotation with wristâŚfollowed by punches doing the same but the senk/tut, is teaching not the lead but the rear to constantly be available to attack from the transfer protocol of attack defence or plan B. the punches are obviously focused on the hit⌠combine the 2 simple actions /ideas and you start to see its teaching a begining student the rudiments of arms angles ideas in SLT , but without the angling and use of chumkil its not fully functional ⌠take this idea and add methods to clear its way pak-bong-jut- and you start to see what it can be âŚ
your wrists/forearms replace the other on the line seamlessly allowing a transfer of one arm along the attack line to the next without opening up your centerline to attack..if you meet anything on this line chi-sao takes care of it without thinking
it only functions froma blind side /flank..or rather it functions if it has to from this angle..attacking in the center is a bozo nono âŚ
we dont leave the attack line for this reason to cahse hands because by our own positional maneuvering are always facing one arm/side the idea of throwing one into the air to block while the other hits is wrong thinking , more application mind , bil gee does use chasing hands for that reason, being in the bad spotâŚer we are attacking not standing turning this way and that following hands âŚI call it head hunting , but thats my own way of translation/thinking
[QUOTE=k gledhill;820824]⌠combine the 2 simple actions /ideas and you start to see its teaching a begining student the rudiments of arms angles ideas in SLT , but without the angling and use of chumkil its not fully functional ⌠take this idea and add methods to clear its way pak-bong-jut- and you start to see what it can be âŚ
your wrists/forearms replace the other on the line seamlessly allowing a transfer of one arm along the attack line to the next without opening up your centerline to attack..if you meet anything on this line chi-sao takes care of it without thinking[/QUOTE]
I like the way youâve explained this concept k. We normally refer to this type of fistwork (bold) as âGaan Sau Chun Kuenâ and Iâve seen other mainland families refer to it as âSup Jii Chun Kuenâ (Figure 10 Spring Fist) VERY famous back in the HK movie days!
Youâre bang on the money about the use of Chum Kil with this posture IMO, as another reason we press one arm against the other is in preparation for that first bridge contact, then the form comes alive.
Characters like t and Dale only critique what they âseeâ, and we should all be aware that Wing Chun has more to it than just the âimageâ. Each Sifu developed on their own, creating numerous interpretations.
Itâs the similarities I try to look for in everyone. Not the differences.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;820998]I like the way youâve explained this concept k. We normally refer to this type of fistwork (bold) as âGaan Sau Chun Kuenâ and Iâve seen other mainland families refer to it as âSup Jii Chun Kuenâ (Figure 10 Spring Fist) VERY famous back in the HK movie days!
[/QUOTE]
âHK movie days.â Enough said.
Characters like t and Dale only critique what they âseeâ, and we should all be aware that Wing Chun has more to it than just the âimageâ. Each Sifu developed on their own, creating numerous interpretations.
People like me base their conclusions and opinions on evidence and reason (that is based on evidence), not stories, claims, movies, unrealistic exercises, theory, concepts, etc. Itâs amusing that you talk about âimageâ when this is at the root of fantasy-based martial arts.
Itâs the similarities I try to look for in everyone. Not the differences.
It doesnât matter if you look for similarities or differences among fantasy-based WCK â it will all end up being fantasy. Instead, try looking for âtruthâ, for genuine evidence, try not accepting anything unless there is good quality evidence to support it, develop some critical thinking skills, etc. If truth is what you are looking for, that is the only way to find it.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;821014]âHK movie days.â Enough said.
People like me base their conclusions and opinions on evidence and reason (that is based on evidence), not stories, claims, movies, unrealistic exercises, theory, concepts, etc. Itâs amusing that you talk about âimageâ when this is at the root of fantasy-based martial arts.
It doesnât matter if you look for similarities or differences among fantasy-based WCK â it will all end up being fantasy. Instead, try looking for âtruthâ, for genuine evidence, try not accepting anything unless there is good quality evidence to support it, develop some critical thinking skills, etc. If truth is what you are looking for, that is the only way to find it.[/QUOTE]
truth is relative. What you believe is the truth and what I believe is the truth are two completely different things. There is not ârealâ truth", becouse its all âwrittenâ from someone perspective.
[QUOTE=monji112000;821020]truth is relative. What you believe is the truth and what I believe is the truth are two completely different things. There is not ârealâ truth", becouse its all âwrittenâ from someone perspective.[/QUOTE]
Truth is not relative, and isnât based on perspective. This is nonsense. And it is the sort of nonsense that traditional guys and woo people use to âsellâ their nonsense â âwe follow a different truthâ sort of BS. Claims are not âtruthâ, they are just claims. But it makes perfect sense for them to do that since they have no good quality evidence to use to support their claims.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;821025]Truth is not relative, and isnât based on perspective. This is nonsense. And it is the sort of nonsense that traditional guys and woo people use to âsellâ their nonsense â âwe follow a different truthâ sort of BS. Claims are not âtruthâ, they are just claims. But it makes perfect sense for them to do that since they have no good quality evidence to use to support their claims.[/QUOTE]
Tysonâs truth was that he could KO almost anyone, is that everyones elseâs truth?
Truth is subjective, facts arenât, I think you got the two confused.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;821031]Tysonâs truth was that he could KO almost anyone, is that everyones elseâs truth?
Truth is subjective, facts arenât, I think you got the two confused.[/QUOTE]
Facts are true (truth). Tyson could, at one time, KO almost everyone (or we couls say that he was a phenomenal boxer). That is true, it is a truth. It is true for everyone. Truth is not subjective. Fantasy is subjective.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;821036]Facts are true (truth). Tyson could, at one time, KO almost everyone (or we couls say that he was a phenomenal boxer). That is true, it is a truth. It is true for everyone. Truth is not subjective. Fantasy is subjective.[/QUOTE]
Rand would be proud of your view, narrow and all.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;821036]Facts are true (truth). Tyson could, at one time, KO almost everyone (or we couls say that he was a phenomenal boxer). That is true, it is a truth. It is true for everyone. Truth is not subjective. Fantasy is subjective.[/QUOTE]
facts are also relative. its common knowledge that history is written by the opinions, and not some black/white âpureâ fact based deity.
I am not saying black and white situations donât exist they just are very uncommon. Example: I went to a rangers game (love the rangers!), they won. Fact. Did they play well⌠depends on who you ask. Did the losing team do good.. also depends ect.. Does this technique work? everyone knows that any good technique has a good situations and bad situations for usage.
Nothing in life is black/white, truth/lie, good/evil, wrong/correct. Its all based on opinion. So whoâs opinion is right? stupid question! my opinion is always the correct one.:rolleyes: