Where do wing chun fighters get power for their techniques, especially chain punching? Whenever I see wing chun people punching, they are punching rapidly but this doesn’t seem to allow much body movement.
Re: where does wing chun get power?
Originally posted by monkeyboxing
Where do wing chun fighters get power for their techniques, especially chain punching? Whenever I see wing chun people punching, they are punching rapidly but this doesn’t seem to allow much body movement.
If the punches are more rapid than the body can move then the power is obviously not from the body movement.
In those cases, it’s based on how solid the stance is and the punch mechanics to link the fists to the body.
In the cases where the body moves in time with the punch then power can come from the body movement if the mechanics are right.
There are different types of punches depending on the situation.
the question might be where do you get your power. instead of Wing Chun get power.
I was going to suggest a better question such as “Where does the power come from in martial arts”. However, Phenix put it nicely.
One could also ask, “where does the power in movement come from?”
they are punching rapidly but this doesn’t seem to allow much body movement.
Lets focus on “doesn’t seem to” for a moment. While the wing chun fighter may not show much movement, on a cellular level, they are really quite busy.
but
Always gotta be a “but” in there somewhere.
Whenever I see wing chun people punching, they are punching rapidly
Well, thats good! Nice to see vigorus punching going on. As has been stated, the power comes from the stance, and from the linkage of the waist. Or, as i am taught, mass comes from the stance. If the stance is working with the hands, the result should be the body’s entire mass, delivered speedily, giving the hits the “ommph” needed.
especially chain punching?
Chain punching is also used to quickly cover the center, placeing hand over hand smoothly facilitates a bridge. If it doesn’t get a bridge, it just hits, or the person is flailling.
Where do wing chun fighters get power for their techniques
Well why didn’t you just ask this first?
From the sun, of course! MMMMMMM Fusion, its a good thing.
Re: where does wing chun get power?
Originally posted by monkeyboxing
Whenever I see wing chun people punching, they are punching rapidly but this doesn’t seem to allow much body movement.
I think this leads to another interesting question:
How does power relate to the amount of body movements (movements that can be observed or captured in videos)?
more movement leads to more power? or this is not the case?
Thats not the case
At least, not in every case. Movement may be wasted if the connection of the weight of the body to the strike is not correct, Imagine if you will one of Tiger Woods knees suddenly going out mid swing, or just around the point of contact, not much power then. Same thing if the body does not link properly to the strike.
What is true is that more movement means more time. Both between strikes, and time to “fire” a strike at a target of opertunity.
Re: Re: where does wing chun get power?
Originally posted by yylee
[B]
I think this leads to another interesting question:
How does power relate to the amount of body movements (movements that can be observed or captured in videos)?
more movement leads to more power? or this is not the case? [/B]
Let’s compare punching with shooting with a bow and arrow. You pull the bowstring before releasing the arrow. The more you pull the bowstring, the more potential energy the arrow has. The more potential energy, the more kinetic energy the arrow will have when you release it.
Pulling the bowstring is like “loading” your punch. “Loading” your punch does entail more body movement. This is the case of most martial arts. But in wing chun (especially in the chain punch), when you unleash a punch the other hand already is “loading” for the next punch. That’s why body movements in WC is not as noticeable as in other martial arts.
Originally posted by Phenix
the question might be where do you get your power. instead of Wing Chun get power.
Why is that?
Re: Re: Re: where does wing chun get power?
Originally posted by Wingman
[B]
Let’s compare punching with shooting with a bow and arrow. You pull the bowstring before releasing the arrow. The more you pull the bowstring, the more potential energy the arrow has. The more potential energy, the more kinetic energy the arrow will have when you release it.
Pulling the bowstring is like “loading” your punch. “Loading” your punch does entail more body movement. This is the case of most martial arts. But in wing chun (especially in the chain punch), when you unleash a punch the other hand already is “loading” for the next punch. That’s why body movements in WC is not as noticeable as in other martial arts. [/B]
Thank you for actually answering the question!
Anyways to the rest of you who aren’t answering the question and are asking me in return where the power comes from in other martial arts, it usually comes from body mechanics such as twisting the hip, etc. However, wing chun’s priority seems to be speed and thus the punches don’t have full body rotation.
Depends how you do your punching, of course, but real power comes from stepping as you punch. No longer a rotational form of power generation, but more a linear one. There are elements of rotation in there, and the hips do help.
But every punch, ideally, has a step, and thus the full body weight behind it. You are then effectively punching with the legs, which contain the biggest muscles in the body.
Mechanical, machine gun like chain punching with no stance or movement behind it is inefficient and easily countered.
i dont think a wingchun straight punch would ever reach the power level of a boxers right hook, but it definately goes above and beyond the power of a jab, or a straight punch
i know when i roll punch into a large boxing bag, i managed to make it fly into the wall 1 metre away
i think its highly important to practise punching a large bag, small targets, as well as the air
(representing the body, the head, and a missed punch respectively)
thoughts?
In reply to original post:
Actually, you have been watching mere amatuers. The real power begins to appear at oh so much higher frequencies of punching. First there is the sonic-boom soundbarrier, then there is the laser-beam spectrum, until finally “The Einstein Punch” is reached, as the frequency of macine gunning chain punches rends the very fabric of space-time, creating it’s own gravity, that pulls you into the punch with the bone-jarring shock of matter becoming energy.
Power is a pretty complicated issue.
Power can be local or whole body.
Many sources can be found for power- I can hit with just the wrist, just the elbow, spine flexion, spine extension, rib motion, hip extension, hip flexion, weight dropping, weight rising, weight shifting, hip twisting- whatever.
All these can come in any combination, though some are more practical than others.
Isolation may refine links and find hidden power.
The ‘standard chain punch’ can be a fairly quick full body thing using a combination of above mechanics done very small, or can be the forward pressing of the body (essentially posterior chain action lined up with the ground) with the explosion coming from the elbow and shoulder girdle, backed against the ‘root’ of the body, linked into forward moving body mass.
It can also be (and frequently is) garbage pattycake in mid-air lacking any power or authority.
Later,
Andrew
P.S. Monkeyboxing- ‘full body rotation’ doesn’t equal full power. Full power means activating the right chains quickly.
Re: where does wing chun get power?
From what I understand of the wing chun gung fu, most of the gong lik comes from stucture, timming, speed, and plyometric power. This all means that sport specific physical conditioning is very important and this should be common sense to anyone who wants to master any physical discipline.
I know for a fact that physical conditioning is vital part of wing chun curriculum in Sifu Alan Lee and Duncan Leung’s academy. They have specific wing chun gung fu exercises that very unique to their methodology. In some Duncan Leung’s tapes, you can actually seen some of their wing chun exercises.
Where do wing chun fighters get power for their techniques, especially chain punching?
The power comes from good form of course, technical mastery,
stability, explosive power, and timming.
Whenever I see wing chun people punching, they are punching rapidly but this doesn’t seem to allow much body movement.
To see the value of the wing chun punch you have to understand the concepts of economy of motion and physics.
Cheung- wingchun sez-
i dont think a wingchun straight punch would ever reach the power level of a boxers right hook, but it definately goes above and beyond the power of a jab, or a straight punch
i know when i roll punch into a large boxing bag, i managed to make it fly into the wall 1 metre away
For doing real damage- a well developed(short power) wing chun punch can be more effective than a right hook.
Takes time and proper development.
WCK gets power different in kind from other arts, so the question is perfectly fine. WCK power is different from boxing or tai ji or karate, for example.
There are (at least) 2 basic kinds of power, sao (limb/disconnected) and sam (body/connected), two qualities, short (whipping) and long (charging), and several methods for transfer (condense/expand, rotate, spiral, etc.)
This is all summed up in the sets. Power is a relative thing, however. How much damage does it take to drop someone if you hit them in the pectoral? If you hit them on the chin? On the temple?
If you want basic connected expansion/compression power, stand in YJKYM (like in Siu Nim Tao), properly align everything so that your skeletal system supports the middle two knuckles of your fist (your wrist vector aligned behind it, your elbow behind that, your shoulders triangled behind that, with your pelvis making it a pyramid, and your legs working as two large drivers). Then compress down and in or expand up and out (easiest way to begin) while hitting a wall bag (if you scrape your knuckles, you are sliding across it and not punching into it). Don’t let your elbow lazy out, or your shoulders turn, or your pelvis falter. Train it until it starts to become a default alignment. (Your shoulder muscles shouldn’t engage–that will break your power, if you find yourself shouldering the load, relax and let your lats activate more).
Re: Re: Re: where does wing chun get power?
thanks OdderMensch and Wingman for your answers 
Originally posted by Wingman
[B]
Let’s compare punching with shooting with a bow and arrow. …
…
Pulling the bowstring is like “loading” your punch. “Loading” your punch does entail more body movement. …
[/B]
so this goes back to someone else’s queston in a previous thread:
where is the bow? and where is the bowstring?
don’t worry, I won’t punch the monitor if I am not happy with your answer 
One learns the bow in ygkym…one learns to point the bow in different directions primarily but not exclusively in all in moving platforms in chum kiu and points the bow up and down but not exclusively in biu jee… one learns to control the arrow in slt and fires it in slt, ck and biu gee.
The power is generated from autokenetics (human body structure) and conditioning.
Wing Chun does not generate the power, the human body does. Wing Chun just sheds the light on how the body can generate power.