Generating power

outside of talking about impact power, I see allot of people in Wing Chun with weak power generation.
What is power generation? Creating power when you strike something. To properly generate power when punching you must turn your body and push off the floor in some manner. This is done by many styles in varying ways:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ndPSGjmHA
the only problem with this clip is that 1) they say its JKD its a simple WC Bow and arrow punch. 2) the last part of the clip the fighter isn’t torquing his body enough (JMO).
Generating power with the front kick or push kick / knee:
kicking like punching isn’t as much reliant on the limb (the leg in this case) but the whole body to generate power. Using your hip to thrust forward and generate power, combined with the motion of extending your leg. NOT just lifting your leg and hoping the structure of your body will do some magic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMMBRBNtZLw
although this isn’t really a Wing Chun push kick its very similar, because the MT push kick uses hip power generation also.
Using your hips and your whole body is the key for all the Wing Chun kicks.
Another good example of using the hip is for the knee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObR04J9q2DA
Everyone who has any common sense knows that to generate power with your knee you must use more than just lifting your leg.

Just some basic ideas I learned in WC, I thought they would make good conversation.

[QUOTE=monji112000;820476]outside of talking about impact power, I see allot of people in Wing Chun with weak power generation.
What is power generation? Creating power when you strike something. To properly generate power when punching you must turn your body and push off the floor in some manner.[/QUOTE]

No, you don’t have to “turn your body” – the foundation of WCK power is not from body rotation.

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;820481]No, you don’t have to “turn your body” – the foundation of WCK power is not from body rotation.[/QUOTE]
really? hmm. I’m game for a good laugh.. how can you generate power without turning your body when you punch?
Notice I said generate power, I am not talking about impact power.

Basic clip

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJQrbD7jL8

regards

Alan

structured biomechanics …quadriceps …timing … a systematic process to deliver the inch punch force from several feet away to an incoming body in motion…while avoiding it being delivered to you at the same time …linsil di da ..again !? :smiley:
seung ma -toi ma can help this :wink:

[QUOTE=monji112000;820482]really? hmm. I’m game for a good laugh.. how can you generate power without turning your body when you punch?
Notice I said generate power, I am not talking about impact power.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Terence and Alan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3vEVQ5Qg0

Did he to turning at all to generate power?

[QUOTE=Alan Orr;820488]Basic clip

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJQrbD7jL8

regards

Alan[/QUOTE]

its a good primer and I always enjoy your clips. Again I am not talking about impact power.

[QUOTE=k gledhill;820495]structured biomechanics …quadriceps …timing … a systematic process to deliver the inch punch force from several feet away to an incoming body in motion…while avoiding it being delivered to you at the same time …linsil di da ..again !? :smiley:
seung ma -toi ma can help this ;)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;820496]I agree with Terence and Alan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3vEVQ5Qg0

Did he to turning at all to generate power?[/QUOTE]

I am not sure what the squat clip is supposed to show. I could show someone swinging a baseball bat… that would also show good power.
body mechanics to create power.

Monji,

let me make it more obvious for you. . .

<http://youtube.com/watch?v=9FwIDwBDcnA&gt;

Andrew

True power comes from the floor…

Power comes from your stance and a strong connection to the floor

Ive seen him on other forums; hes always been extremely rude to me No big deal because if your heart is not right you will always lose a debate because hate will always get in the way, and you cannot think clearly and will embarrass yourself, as recently seen in one of my threads

Lets be nice, its obvious that he hasnt been around that long maybe hes just guessing I say this because there is nothing in his profile that says: how long, when, where or who? And no true identity Dont you just hate that, especially when they guess wrong?

I never had to turn when throwing a punch, even while performing iron palm I like to isolate half of my body when demonstrating iron palm(on my knees; unless the bricks are stacked more then three)

There is no need to turn; you just need a strong stance and good timing thats works well with the body mechanic that runs the technique or applications that you are using at that time, unless you are reaching from fighting on the outside, because your body is naturally turned when stepping to the outside

Ali Rahim.

[QUOTE=monji112000;820500]
I could show someone swinging a baseball bat… that would also show good power.
body mechanics to create power.[/QUOTE]

sure , but eagle or crane would not take off via swing. not to mention what happen a split of second before the swing, go a head slow motion the act and observe.

there is where AWARENESS is usefull. does one aware of what happen before the eagle take off ?

just some thoughts

[QUOTE=monji112000;820500]
I am not sure what the squat clip is supposed to show. I could show someone swinging a baseball bat… that would also show good power.
body mechanics to create power.[/QUOTE]
IMO WCK has linear power generation from the body, as well as rotational power generation from the body.. When and how each is used, sometimes in combination is determined by the tactics in play.

Those who have no power have none IMO because they:

A. Are using arm power only..

B. Are not used to releasing power in training and making hard contact.

The Bomb

[QUOTE=YungChun;820543]IMO WCK has linear power generation from the body, as well as rotational power generation from the body.. When and how each is used, sometimes in combination is determined by the tactics in play.

Those who have no power have none IMO because they:

A. Are using arm power only..

B. Are not used to releasing power in training and making hard contact.[/QUOTE]

That is one “hell of a” post, because all the things that you said will ring true when bridge contact is made… I was taught that one could turn with a strike after bridge contact is made and after one has closed the gap while throwing a shot similar to a mop handle going straight to the chin (no turning), feeding ones center to react, even if one hits or if his shot is blocked…

Ali Rahim.

[QUOTE=YungChun;820543]IMO WCK has linear power generation from the body, as well as rotational power generation from the body.. When and how each is used, sometimes in combination is determined by the tactics in play.

Those who have no power have none IMO because they:

A. Are using arm power only..

B. Are not used to releasing power in training and making hard contact.[/QUOTE]

Hi Jim

This is correct.

Wing Chun’s power is in the form development. SLT forward power is shown ( as in my basic clip of issue of force). CK rotational power and so on. At the higher level you level to use power in 8 directions. Which is really any direction and any combination of directions.

Regards

Alan

[QUOTE=AndrewS;820521]Monji,

let me make it more obvious for you. . .

<http://youtube.com/watch?v=9FwIDwBDcnA&gt;

Andrew[/QUOTE]

The above clip is vertical, non-percussive power generation.

Generating maximal horizontal, percussive force generation (such as seen in striking, shot-putting, baseball, tennis, etc) requires body rotation. This is the reason the body is rotated in all sports that require this maximum amounts of this type of power generation.

[QUOTE=AndrewS;820521]Monji,

let me make it more obvious for you. . .

<http://youtube.com/watch?v=9FwIDwBDcnA&gt;

Andrew[/QUOTE]

well I think you made it more confusing, maybe I am just slow. How about this clip…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1L28KunpUk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1a_T1SKqzM&feature=related

how does clean and jerk relate to punching? If anything I can see how the squatting motion is similar to a kick but without the rest of your body you are limiting your kick extensivly.

[QUOTE=Ali. R;820540]Power comes from your stance and a strong connection to the floor

Ive seen him on other forums; hes always been extremely rude to me No big deal because if your heart is not right you will always lose a debate because hate will always get in the way, and you cannot think clearly and will embarrass yourself, as recently seen in one of my threads

Lets be nice, its obvious that he hasnt been around that long maybe hes just guessing I say this because there is nothing in his profile that says: how long, when, where or who? And no true identity Dont you just hate that, especially when they guess wrong?

I never had to turn when throwing a punch, even while performing iron palm I like to isolate half of my body when demonstrating iron palm(on my knees; unless the bricks are stacked more then three)

There is no need to turn; you just need a strong stance and good timing thats works well with the body mechanic that runs the technique or applications that you are using at that time, unless you are reaching from fighting on the outside, because your body is naturally turned when stepping to the outside

Ali Rahim.[/QUOTE]
not trying to be rude just having a friendly conversation.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;820541]sure , but eagle or crane would not take off via swing. not to mention what happen a split of second before the swing, go a head slow motion the act and observe.

there is where AWARENESS is usefull. does one aware of what happen before the eagle take off ?

just some thoughts[/QUOTE]

ok please explain more. What about a monkey paw?

[QUOTE=YungChun;820543]IMO WCK has linear power generation from the body, as well as rotational power generation from the body.. When and how each is used, sometimes in combination is determined by the tactics in play.

Those who have no power have none IMO because they:

A. Are using arm power only..

B. Are not used to releasing power in training and making hard contact.[/QUOTE]

of course I am not saying anything to the contrary.

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;820561]The above clip is vertical, non-percussive power generation.

Generating maximal horizontal, percussive force generation (such as seen in striking, shot-putting, baseball, tennis, etc) requires body rotation. This is the reason the body is rotated in all sports that require this maximum amounts of this type of power generation.[/QUOTE]

agreed.

What the heck is SLT power. Your clip just showed basic structure, and you were using your structure like a spring. This type of power we call impact power(it has many applications), I’m not talking about impact power. It has its place, but in fighting you must be able to generate power not just rely on impact.

Its a pretty sad state if someone trains punching and kick without basic power generation. How do you punch the heavy bad (other than chain punch?). Doesn’t it seem odd that every other martial art creates power from rotating the body(in some way) when they punch… maybe everyone is nuts? :smiley: More importantly what about the second and third form… they loudly point to this fact. Where do you think the straight lead that is shown in so many clips on the web as the 1 inch punch comes from?

You guys really don’t believe that just lifting your leg and have a good structure is going to hurt someone when you kick… do you? Maybe we are talking about two different martial arts. LOL :frowning:

Just to share

while i was researching power generation of Yik Kam lineage years ago with the help of my kungfu brother sifu Robert Chu. I found out.

with todays physics both newtonian and quantuum, we could formulate the whole power generation with three keys components to identify different power generation dna type

namely

1, power source , ie where the power/energy originate from (muscle, shoulder, hip, .. localized, integrated)

2, momentum booster/attennuator , ie rotation movement

3, acceletor/deceletor , ie wrist snaping

also

the expression of the power could be classified as one directional, two directional to 6 diectional.

with one direction the easiest to generate but also easy to be neutralized to 6 direction which is difficult to manfest but difficult to neutralized or deflect

just some thoughts

[QUOTE=monji112000;820571]

ok please explain more. What about a monkey paw?

:([/QUOTE]

1, you need to ask monkey to explain to you. since if i recall WCK is an human art :slight_smile: joking

2, observe instead of think, Aware instead of reason

could you please share what is power generation to you and what is the process of generating this power?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;820574]could you please share what is power generation to you and what is the process of generating this power?[/QUOTE]

Watch the clip he posted above on the baseball swing… that’s a great demonstration on developing horizontal, percussive force.

[QUOTE=monji112000;820571]Doesn’t it seem odd that every other martial art creates power from rotating the body(in some way) when they punch… maybe everyone is nuts? :smiley: More importantly what about the second and third form… they loudly point to this fact. Where do you think the “straight lead” that is shown in so many clips on the web as the “1 inch punch” comes from?
[/QUOTE]

A little rotating is fine.
The problem is that the more you rotate your body one direction, the less easy it is to follow up with the other hand. You’re going to have a monster 1st punch and then you have to turn back.

It’s all great for sports where there’s time to get the body into a ready-to-rotate position. You look in tennis when they get to the net though. When they have to be ready to quickly hit from either side they’re a lot squarer and they don’t take a big swing and follow through.

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;820576]Watch the clip he posted above on the baseball swing… that’s a great demonstration on developing horizontal, percussive force.[/QUOTE]

thanks. that is a great power generation dna type. however, is that applicable for wck application?

so, imho, if i may use my model to analyze, where is the power source, the momentum boosting, and the acceleration? how many direction manifestation?

i ask these questions because we sometimes mistake power source with momentum boosting or acceleration…

in classical chinese power generation paradigm the power source could be muscular or /and body weight, and at advance level qi flow got integrate in. there is where the newtonian physics fail to explain but quantuum physics could. and imho, with a clear picture in the power generatuon will help one to handle power generation better.

and also know what type of power signature fit into what type of art/application. ie what type of power generation dna WCK’s core Slt is developing and who is the mother of this power signature/dna. shaolin?taiji?emai? white crane of fujian? and what is the uniqueness?

to be basic and simple, let examine between 'dead lifting and squat lifting. anyone care to share what you see if you use my model to classified them?

peace