[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1140658]Not allways. Elbows only cut when they are either targetted poorly eg around the eyes as a result of the skin being stretched across the bone on the area of impact, or if they are done in a slashing motion causing glancing blows (although again you have to hit the necessary part of the body ie the bony bits of the head). If the elbow is delivered in correct fashion with the force transmitted to the jic seen they cause massive percussive trauma which often results in knockouts and broken bones (from experience)[/QUOTE]
VT doesnt do elbow strikes… clothing also inhibits them, wearing jackets etc… Please dont tell me elbow strikes are in Bil Gee either. There is no elbow strike in SLT
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140660]VT doesnt do elbow strikes… clothing also inhibits them. [/QUOTE]
Only if you are wearing a straight jacket, in which case throwing punches is also pretty difficult so I’d suggest avoiding them.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140660]Please dont tell me elbow strikes are in Bil Gee either. There is no elbow strike in SLT :D[/QUOTE]
To my understanding the kup jarn movement in BJ is not intended as an elbow strike so to that extent you might be correct. However prior to the 1950’s Ip Man practised and taught BJ with three types of elbow strike included. It was only later that he replaced them all with kup jarn. I was taught that his reasoning was because the kup jarn movement is the more difficult and therefore its practise and perfection would by default hone the other elbow techniques.
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1140681]Only if you are wearing a straight jacket, in which case throwing punches is also pretty difficult so I’d suggest avoiding them.
To my understanding the kup jarn movement in BJ is not intended as an elbow strike so to that extent you might be correct. However prior to the 1950’s Ip Man practised and taught BJ with three types of elbow strike included. It was only later that he replaced them all with kup jarn. I was taught that his reasoning was because the kup jarn movement is the more difficult and therefore its practise and perfection would by default hone the other elbow techniques.[/QUOTE]
BDElbow is breaking from grabs …even with back against a wall
Its easy to release yourself, regardless of opppnents strength
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140660]VT doesnt do elbow strikes… clothing also inhibits them. Please dont tell me elbow strikes are in Bil Gee either. There is no elbow strike in SLT :D[/QUOTE]
How is it possible then that Gary Lam who is in WSL lineage clearly demoes elbow strikes?
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140687]BDElbow is breaking from grabs …even with back against a wall
Its easy to release yourself, regardless of opppnents strength[/QUOTE]
There are many applications of almost every movement in all of the forms, if you’re not careful mate you’ll end up sounding like one of the if they do technique X then I do move Y brigade:p
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1140657]Your world will be really turned upside down if you ever get hit with a full bloodied elbow. The ability to generate power at the elbow without big arcs takes practice and is what differentiates the elbow strikes of WC from those of MT but the elbow is incredibly powerful, a very solid striking surface and very difficult to stop.[/QUOTE]
Agreed: one of my FMA classmates was hit by accident in the eye socket by an elbow of his friend who does some sort of Thai martial art with elbows and knees, muay boran I think it is called. That resulted in a fractured eye socket. What was remarkable to me was how little force was actually applied; they were just playing around. It seems to me the elbow and the knee are 2 very big hard bones, driven by the back and the legs which are the 2 largest muscle groups.
Gary lam does his own thing…takedowns,etc…if he wants to elbow its his business.
I knocked a guy out cold with an elbow to the face ( more like a lan sao ) stepping into him in a real bar fight…still not Ving Tsun.. I should have just punched him…
I have scars from being cut by elbows…I lost blood but not conciousness.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140696]Gary lam does his own thing…[/QUOTE]
I d be more inclined to agree with his interpretation. I have seen some of those grainy WSL vdos on youtube where I saw him apply an elbow to the opponent’s chest. I am not WSL lineage but my teacher believes in elbows also. It seems to fit in naturally.
[QUOTE=trubblman;1140705]I d be more inclined to agree with his interpretation. I have seen some of those grainy WSL vdos on youtube where I saw him apply an elbow to the opponent’s chest. I am not WSL lineage but my teacher believes in elbows also. It seems to fit in naturally.[/QUOTE]
I dont want to be in a position that I need elbows…
[QUOTE=trubblman;1140713]I feel you on that but I think the only position that you wouldn’t need to use elbows is to avoid a fight ( to paraphrase you)[/QUOTE]
Hah ! Avoid a fight , ; )…i was shown the vt bg elbows as an elbow block if you are attacked by elbows by my old sifu.
The lifting elbow coverss an incoming elbow…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140719]Hah ! Avoid a fight , ; )…i was shown the vt bg elbows as an elbow block if you are attacked by elbows by my old sifu.
The lifting elbow coverss an incoming elbow…[/QUOTE]
Yes, I believe that most VT actions have more than 1 application. In addition, one of the kuen kuit does mention elbow strike: The stepping in elbow strike has sufficient threatening power.
When you throw a hook punch and your opponent dodges under your hook, if he doesn’t put his hand on your elbow, that will be the best time to smash your elbow on the side of his head.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140741]Dont forget the VT headbutt for those upclose and clinched moments…:rolleyes: and, sigh, yes I have also used headbutts…[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140660]VT doesnt do elbow strikes… clothing also inhibits them. Please dont tell me elbow strikes are in Bil Gee either. There is no elbow strike in SLT :D[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1140684]As expected- varieties of answers on elbows.
I am no missionary- basically observe and compare and occasionally get a rare insight.
FWIW-- wing chun structure and dynamics results in quite an arsenal od wlbows for close quarter work.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Agreed 100%!
Also, I thought that this was basic knowledge, specially in due fact that the emphasis of Wing Chun is mid to close quarter fighting, but today’s world of TCMAs is full of surprises, and most of them seem to be appearing in this forum. :eek:
Incidentally, at Chum Kiu, I was taught the 5 elbow form and then the elbows were incorporated into close range chi sao practice.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1140709]I dont want to be in a position that I need elbows…[/QUOTE]
Unfortunatly, sometimes our technique does not dictate our position, but our position dictates our technique. I am just saying is good to train the complete art with its complete and relevant arsenal!
I should have just punched him…