[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1144319]
I’ve spent my whole life trying to “de-mystify” the internal martial arts for people, so we are in the same camp where that is concerned. (Oddly, nobody ever sends me nasty PM’s though.) Perhaps this will be that time. ;)[/QUOTE]
if you ever want to write a book about it, I’d be happy to contribute the biomechanical stuff…just sayin’…
@Mike: cheers brother, we’re in agreement. It’s nice to meet a practitioner of these arts who agrees with me.
@TYG: whoa did this thread just become an anatomy book? 
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1144327]I agree: osteopathically, you often treat the sacrum and coccyx to resolve headaches; this utilizes what the osteopaths term the “core link” - the dural membranes that move from sacrum to occiput (in fact, if u do “internal” coccyx treatment, sometimes the person can feel the tension pulling up into their ethamoid bone - sort of behind the bridge of the nose); when u contract pelvic floor, if u r sensitive enough, u feel changes in the cranium; often we use movements of the feet to correct lesions in the head; finally, the three main transverse diaphragms occur at the level of pelvic floor, mid thoracic and cranial (behind the eyes) - they r def going to b involved in dissipating long axis forces placed on the system;
yeh, this makes lots of sense…thanks for sharing this in such a straight forward manner Mike - it cuts through a lot of silliness that people put out there, for various reasons[/QUOTE]
Chris, we have a theory in TCM(Traditional Chinese Medicine) where we treat the top for bottom issues and treat the bottom for top issues.
Nice to see its in other systems of health care as well.
I recently saw something on TV that I’d seen years ago. It showed a karate group, maybe from somewhere in the eastern or southern U.S., who had people punch and chop them in the neck, take full kicks and punches to the torso, and full-on kicks to the groin. It sure looked real, but I thought the training method might be different from that used in CMA, and possibly harmful in the long-term, but I can’t be sure on that, either. I’m not interested in their method, but I was wondering what you all might think of that, if you’ve seen it.
That is the Juko Kai people.
They do hard style body conditioning.
They can take a hit or two.
Thanks, Dale.
You know, another benefit of iron body training that occurred to me is, if a practitioner happened to be in an accident, such as a minor (or major?) car accident. I’m sure someone who had the training to a good degree would be far better off than without. Though I’ve never trained iron body myself.
There are some interesting threads on bullshido about Juko Kai:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9116
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10217&page=1
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6998
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33433&page=1
Some legal stuff:
http://www.e-budokai.com/jukokai/index.htm
[QUOTE=Jimbo;1144384]Thanks, Dale.
You know, another benefit of iron body training that occurred to me is, if a practitioner happened to be in an accident, such as a minor (or major?) car accident. I’m sure someone who had the training to a good degree would be far better off than without. Though I’ve never trained iron body myself.[/QUOTE]
There’s no such thing as car accidents. All preventable collisions caused by human error or system failure. Either way, it’s no accident. 
Having said that, no, it won’t help you in extreme force trauma situations like 3000 lbs of rolling steel. You pays your nickel and you takes your chances.
what it does do is help you to absorb forces particular to those propelled by human power and it helps you to recover quickly from such strikes. Such is the nature of any conditioning.
The Iron training is a slow and gradual process that achieves conditioning that lasts and is steady. It is another way to get to that conditioning as opposed to the methods used by modern fighters, which is medicine balls, fire and return strike drills, bag work, sparring etc.
It’s not as mysterious as some of the stories wrapped around it. It is slow repetitive striking in targeted areas in order to toughen skin, add density to muscle tissue and to fortify bone through the vibratory process.
Won’t make you indestructible, but will teach you a lot about the forces you can project and sustain.
You will not be undestructable as David points out, but if you seriously train these skills you can take more abuse than someone who is not trained.
You get hit, you can brush off most strikes and kicks, and when you hit them, you will go through them and they fall down and cannot get up as easily.
And if you randomly bang your forearm on something, it won’t hurt as bad
I have developed that in my forearms, but haven’t had any formal training in that manner for my torso. Other than when I was young and sparred a lot, and was able to take hard shots, but IMO that was different from an organized iron body training.
When I was a teenager, and more into traditional training, I used to bang my forearms against trees and such. After a while I stopped, but even now, 15 years later, they are still tough as hell; and the only work they get is from lifting.
That reminds me of a story, I had to be hospitalized when I was 16, and when the medic tried to put the IV in my forearm, he had a lot of trouble and remarked that they were really tough. By which I replied, “thanks!”
Not a big believer in these tactics, not stating that if it’s your bag don’t do it, by all means go for it.
My thoughts are yes you need to be able to take a punch/kick but more importantly, shouldn’t you be getting out of the way of the train when you see it coming. I understand that not all things are seen when connected with striking and that you should be able to condition you body enough to take and accept hits, but again, my thoughts are MOVE. the time spent training this could be spent on foot work, bob and weave, level changing, etc. I like to move in for the clinch, which negates the strikes to some degree. But again this is my opinion and is held as such. If it’s your game have at it.
cheers.
In regards to the duration of the effects.
While SOME characteristics will remain ( ability to take a shot, “harder” hands, etc), you need consistant training to keep them at a high level.
That said I have found that, like doing weight training, taking intermittant breaks actually gives the body time to recover and adapt better to the training.
It has been my experience that after the “core” of the program is done that taking a week break, maybe two, every few months (3-4), seems to not only refresh one mentally but allow to body to “recover” and “adapt” to the training.
You come back to it “better”.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1144576]In regards to the duration of the effects.
While SOME characteristics will remain ( ability to take a shot, “harder” hands, etc), you need consistant training to keep them at a high level.
That said I have found that, like doing weight training, taking intermittant breaks actually gives the body time to recover and adapt better to the training.
It has been my experience that after the “core” of the program is done that taking a week break, maybe two, every few months (3-4), seems to not only refresh one mentally but allow to body to “recover” and “adapt” to the training.
You come back to it “better”.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I was told that, once you get past the beginner stages, less is actually more.
In the beginning you need to do it every day for the first 6 months or whatever. Once you’ve been doing it for 6-12 months, you can get away with missing some days every now and then.
This is probably because at this level it becomes an issue maintenance rather than increasing conditioning.
Of course, if you’re gonna take a week or two off like you suggest, when you resume, I would build back up to where you were over a few days rather than jumping right back in. It’s like if you take a week or two off from weightlifting, you don’t come back and attempt your 1RM on the first set.
[QUOTE=IronFist;1144631]Agreed. I was told that, once you get past the beginner stages, less is actually more.
In the beginning you need to do it every day for the first 6 months or whatever. Once you’ve been doing it for 6-12 months, you can get away with missing some days every now and then.
This is probably because at this level it becomes an issue maintenance rather than increasing conditioning.
Of course, if you’re gonna take a week or two off like you suggest, when you resume, I would build back up to where you were over a few days rather than jumping right back in. It’s like if you take a week or two off from weightlifting, you don’t come back and attempt your 1RM on the first set.[/QUOTE]
Yes, agreed oh rusty fist.
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1143698]As Dale said, yes it works.
Iron Palm
Just remember that iron palm is much more than just the ability to break blocks with your hands. Yes, I can do that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD2CJC82vWM Though it often gets the most press, block breaking is a minor, secondary effect that comes from iron palm training.
In my opinion, the true point of iron palm training is two-fold:
- It toughens the hand to protect it against injury when striking.
- It teaches you the physics of energy transference through an object.
Iron palm was designed to teach you how to strike the human body with concussive force that can injure the internal organs.
A qualified instructor is the best way to learn the skill. I also recommend the iron palm DVD from the Iron Lotus Society: http://www.theironlotussociety.com/Products.htm It is an excellent resource and is just like being there with them in class. Plus, they hold nothing back.
Iron Body
A very necessary skill in ancient times, a cool skill to learn in modern times. It toughens the body to endure a great deal of physical abuse.[/QUOTE]
Can anyone here contact Rod Morgan for me? I paypal’d him the money for the iron palm DVD back on 12/09/11 and he said I’d receive it by the 19th at the latest. I didn’t receive it and have contacted him twice since for a tracking number, but have received no response. I think you experienced a delay initially as well Mooying, but eventually received it. I still haven’t received mine though?..
[QUOTE=Faruq;1150469]Can anyone here contact Rod Morgan for me? I paypal’d him the money for the iron palm DVD back on 12/09/11 and he said I’d receive it by the 19th at the latest. I didn’t receive it and have contacted him twice since for a tracking number, but have received no response. I think you experienced a delay initially as well Mooying, but eventually received it. I still haven’t received mine though?..[/QUOTE]
No, I didn’t experience a delay. There was a mix up as to the DVD I received, but after I notified Rod about the mix up he sent another DVD which I received in about 2-3 days.
You can contact him through Facebook via Rodney Morgan. His avatar on FB is the Iron Palm Society logo. So, he should be easy to find.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1144576]In regards to the duration of the effects.
While SOME characteristics will remain ( ability to take a shot, “harder” hands, etc), you need consistant training to keep them at a high level.
That said I have found that, like doing weight training, taking intermittant breaks actually gives the body time to recover and adapt better to the training.
It has been my experience that after the “core” of the program is done that taking a week break, maybe two, every few months (3-4), seems to not only refresh one mentally but allow to body to “recover” and “adapt” to the training.
You come back to it “better”.[/QUOTE]
That is my belief as well.
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1150481]No, I didn’t experience a delay. There was a mix up as to the DVD I received, but after I notified Rod about the mix up he sent another DVD which I received in about 2-3 days.
You can contact him through Facebook via Rodney Morgan. His avatar on FB is the Iron Palm Society logo. So, he should be easy to find.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, bro. Since my e-mails have been abortive, perhaps contact via Facebook will receive a response.