Looking at the Eddie Bravo chain, going over his fake battle against a ‘kung fu guy’ - and how earnestdly the MMA folks on the board defended it - straining credulity well past the breaking point… it was obvious that some were p!mping this just to demonstrate to themselves how ‘dumb’ a CMA type is… and it was obvious that others were seeing things that were just not there in order to support an existing belief structure.
This demonstrates to me that MMA has entered it’s own ‘TMA’ phase… where the objectivity of the fighting floor is replaced with blind obedience.
Comments?
The problem with most TMA students is that they are spoon fed stories about how great their masters and grand masters were as fighters, they are taught techniques which they are told are deadly, they learn forms which they are told are advanced, etc Sparring is secondary, at time even nonexistant, it is frequently quite restricted and more like point sparring
MMA people on the other hand hold up actual competition as the “achievement”, the “top dog” in their gym is the guy/gal who competes, they do a lot of “alive” work so they know their own relative strength… when you are kicked, punched, knee’ed, thrown, and submitted numerous times a week you don’t have delussions of grandeur quite so much 
Now, this would have been more interesting if you said PURE BJJ people, because many do not appreciate the role of striking in a fight…
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;759181]The problem with most TMA students is that they are spoon fed stories about how great their masters and grand masters were as fighters, they are taught techniques which they are told are deadly, they learn forms which they are told are advanced, etc Sparring is secondary, at time even nonexistant, it is frequently quite restricted and more like point sparring[/QUOTE]
Give it another generation or two…
I’ve already seen people in the grappling world saying things like “My teacher broke somebody’s arm with this technique.” You know they’re not practicing that on the mat. So how long before nobody knows how to do certain techniques but they stand around saying “Blah blah blah was the deadliest fighter ever in the whole world and could break anybody’s arm with somesuch move or another?”
TMA just has several hundred years head start is all.
good points in here.
i think another aspect that TMA has that MMA doesnt have is the actual understanding/misunderstandin of combat.
a lot of TMA guys have never been in a fight, and never will. Often times these guys simply dont actually understand that some of the things they may think or fantasize about combat just arent reality. these generally are the bunch that try to be all mystical, talk about how good dead guys WERE, and then try to hide behind the shadow of said dead men and ride the glory wave. In the end they just screw themselves, but often are mis led by a teacher into this process.
where as your average MMA guy has been in his fair share of highly pressurized training, fight simulation, and competition fighting. And also, alot of MMA guys have been in many real fights.
a lot of the MMA coaches are going into the gym with real life experience. It shows pretty quickly if someone knows what to look for.
thats not to say there arent TMA teachers with real experience, there are, but i think the ratio between how many TMA guys have the experience and knowledge of real fights or lots of competition compared to the MMA guys is very different.
over all you will find more MMA guys/coaches that have been round the block and back, where you find a majority of TMA guys never left thier front door step.
rd’s alias said fighters no fan boys yes.
i have to agree.
ross i am gladd my sifu taught me fighting 1 forms 2. no spoon feeding here. 
I think that point has some clarity. It’s not like its was not going to happen eventualy.
And also, alot of MMA guys have been in many real fights.
This part I would take a second look at, in what context, combative sport experiance or in some type of context where he was exposed to outside violent encounters?
cop, bouncer, gangster, thug, bad youth, bad area, military experiance…what have you. Even in those positions its not all the same.
i guess i should clarify.
by ‘real fights’ im basically covering anything that has to do with a fully resisitng opponent bent on KO, Submission, or actualy violence. in this case, more often than not, ring fights. but fights none the less.
The bonus also about a lot of MMA gyms, is that even if you have not ever been in a fight atmosphere you will be able to watch matches pretty frequently to get adjusted to the idea of what it takes to be in the ring before you actually get in there yourself.
to many TMA schools will never put thier students through that type of training. Sparring is often the max you will ever reach. Of course it fully depends on the type of sparring, but most of the time its so structured/limited, no face shots, no throws, etc…
granted a ring fight is going to be very different than a street fight.
i would still put my money on the guy with 10 ring fights vs the guy with nothing.
Mas Judt is bad for the sport.
[QUOTE=Shaolin Shi;759198]Give it another generation or two…
I’ve already seen people in the grappling world saying things like “My teacher broke somebody’s arm with this technique.” You know they’re not practicing that on the mat. So how long before nobody knows how to do certain techniques but they stand around saying “Blah blah blah was the deadliest fighter ever in the whole world and could break anybody’s arm with somesuch move or another?”
TMA just has several hundred years head start is all.[/QUOTE]
as long as competition thrives, it won’t happen. competition will keep that in check. I have seen broken limbs in competition. It happens sometimes.
All of this is stuff I agree with, but no one is addressing the inability of the MMA trained people on the board to recoginze the obvious ‘work’ of the Eddie Bravo vid. The desperation to support it that resulted in seeing things that just were not there, and ignoring things that were - which went counter to thier point.
Has the MMA doctrine created blinders?
[QUOTE=Shaolin Shi;759198]Give it another generation or two…
I’ve already seen people in the grappling world saying things like “My teacher broke somebody’s arm with this technique.” You know they’re not practicing that on the mat. [/QUOTE]
In sub-grappling, BJJ, Sambo, and Judo the joint breaks are practiced at full intensity. The only difference between how they are done for real and how they are done in practice and competition is that the hold is released as soon as the opponent taps in practice and in comps.
If the opponent doesn’t tap… snap.
So, yes, they are practicing that on the mats.
[QUOTE=PangQuan;759206]good points in here.
i think another aspect that TMA has that MMA doesnt have is the actual understanding/misunderstandin of combat.
a lot of TMA guys have never been in a fight, and never will. Often times these guys simply dont actually understand that some of the things they may think or fantasize about combat just arent reality. these generally are the bunch that try to be all mystical, talk about how good dead guys WERE, and then try to hide behind the shadow of said dead men and ride the glory wave. In the end they just screw themselves, but often are mis led by a teacher into this process.
where as your average MMA guy has been in his fair share of highly pressurized training, fight simulation, and competition fighting. [/QUOTE]
tma guys train for a possibility; mma guys train for an inevitability…
I think the post was more in response to the mentality of mma at this stage. We all know, or hopefully know, that competive venues often help a martial art stay on course.
For instance - KnifeFighter beleived it. Wholeheartedly. How could a man with his vast freefighting experience not recognize what someone like me, with much more modest (in volume) fight experience could clearly see?
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;759172]Looking at the Eddie Bravo chain, going over his fake battle against a ‘kung fu guy’ - and how earnestdly the MMA folks on the board defended it - straining credulity well past the breaking point… it was obvious that some were p!mping this just to demonstrate to themselves how ‘dumb’ a CMA type is… and it was obvious that others were seeing things that were just not there in order to support an existing belief structure.
This demonstrates to me that MMA has entered it’s own ‘TMA’ phase… where the objectivity of the fighting floor is replaced with blind obedience.
Comments?[/QUOTE]
I don’t really understand the question but…
If you’re entering the cage to fight, amatuer or professional … or just fighting under rules that allow striking to the body and head while standing or while on the ground… that means you are seriously studying ju-jitsu. If you are seriously studying ju-jitsu your mind is more dimensional than your average person. You understand flow, emptyness in the moment and exploding with entention on instinct. Instinct.
This can also just as easily be explored in training ones body to move efficiently as a striker… no matter what style (hard or soft) one styles. Timing. Vision … with more than the eyes.
People talk a lot of ****. You can do this or can’t do that. This one style can do this but not that under x circumstances.
These styles are all tools to help one become free… they are not meant to solve the problems. You are!
For me, I found freedom in E-Chuan. And now Gracie Ju-Jitsu is something I will always study because it is just fun and I learn so much about myself training it. I miss it.
If you have people to train with, gobble it up while you can. It’s a blessing.
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;759242]For instance - KnifeFighter beleived it. Wholeheartedly. How could a man with his vast freefighting experience not recognize what someone like me, with much more modest (in volume) fight experience could clearly see?[/QUOTE]
Anyone who has witnessed many challenge matches of strikers vs. grapplers will more than likely have seen fights that weren’t much different than what happened in that clip… that’s what made it seem as if it could have been real.
I’ve seen one guy quit after a single jab, another give up as soon as the fight hit the ground, several people who looked great doing warm up forms and then couldn’t throw a single strike once the fight was on, several people get armlocked in less than 5 seconds after the fight started, etc., etc, etc. All scenarios that could have easily looked as if they had been made up… but they weren’t.
So, with all that experience, of seeing strikers annihilate ground fighters, what in the world so dazzled you during the course of that video, that you were willing to throw all those memories out the window, and say: this looks real!?
I think you might be a little impressionable, my friend. You’ve watched striker after striker pound on grapplers, and one poorly produced, and dimly lit set from a raving degenerate and competitive ****sexual (professionally?), who actually wants to out-gay gays–this video changes history for you?
You must strengthen the mind before you can begin to strengthen the body.
“He who sees what he wants to see, might not see what’s there. He who sees what’s there, and yet does not see what it is he can forsee that he wishes to see, when he sees, cannot see what is there, for it cannot be seen.”
–Grandmaster Ukeno.