TMA and bad attitude (not a troll)

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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In a recent thread (and several others previously) I stated that I’ve seen bigger egos in TMA than sport styles, which quite naturally was met with resistance here. Here’s yet another example that happened recently.

I was talking to one of my bjj coaches, and he was telling me that he went to the pizza place next door, to order some pizzas for the guys who were painting (we just got a new school and were fixing it up) when he told the guy at the register that he was from next door, he says “oh, the martial arts place? I do martial arts too” so dave (coach) says “really? what style?” and the guy told him. He asked what we do “bjj, judo and muay thai” and he went next door to get the guy a schedule and a flyer for the upcoming adriano lucio seminar. When he got back, the guy says “you can keep those, I don’t think I’ll be going to your school - I’m happy where I am”.

Dave says “okay, that’s cool. What do you guys do? how do you train? do you grapple at all?” and the guy says “No, none of that - we don’t need grappling because we won’t go to the ground.” Dave just smiles and says “okay, happy training to you, then”

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i’d say the guy was more of a misguided fool.
one day he’ll discover the truth, probably the hard way.

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How is that a bad attitude? Maybe he’s just a newbie to ma and don’t really gets the big picture

4

No different than BJJers claiming they don’t need to know how to strike because they’ll just take you to the ground and pound you.

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This is a little off-topic, but I was wondering…

Do you guys that train the ground game think it is possible to avoid going to the ground? I mean for as much time as you spend working on that aspect, if someone else out there is training to avoid it couldnt that possibly throw everything off for you? Let me add that I think most striking schools dont do this the right way. I think in order to avoid going to the ground you must have experience dealing with people who like to grapple and you have to learn to defend against them, not just your teacher saying “this is what they would do, this is how we would defend, now go put your sparring gear on and we wont work on that technique at all since none of us grapples and we will never need to!”

Any thoughts. My system has grappling techniques in most of the forms, but my school isnt known for its grappling…we just dont train it. Its not against the rules, and back in the day a lot of us used to mix it up on the ground after sweeps and take downs, but that seems to have died off as the class sizes kept growing. I am looking to start it back up again, but I like training as a striker trying to prevent someone else from taking it to the ground. Thanks, guys!!

Ben

ps. Sorry…I know its off topic, so if you wanna reply, feel free to pm me.

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Sorry, but you can’t count things being in your forms if you don’t train them.

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Just because we dont train the grappling techniques like we do the other techniques in our forms, that doesnt mean they arent there. I have found applications to forms that result in throws and takedowns that other students dont see, does that mean they moves arent there because they havent seen it and they dont work on it? Im sorry, but that statement was just a little absurd. Excuse me…what I guess I should have said was:

“…we just dont train it as much.”

There, is that better?

Ben

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I think Oso really summed it up for me the otehr day when he posted (I’m paraphrasing here) that when traditional guys pose for a pic they make fierce menacing faces and when sports guys pose its all smiles and “hang loose”.

I think your coaches reaction is also similar. a traditional guy might have taken the pizza dude’s comment as a total insult slap int eh face. your coach just smiles

because we get to fight. we get the “battle” and symbolically “live and die” every time we train. pressure, contact, resistance..

they don’t and they hold alot of doubt and worries and insecurities inside them. they react by putting up a hard front in an attempt to keep people away judging their skills.

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just to recap: someone else here get’s original credit for the ‘kung fu face’ anecdote…I just can’t remember who.:slight_smile:

I think both sides of seven’s example could have been a lot more arrogant and ****y.

David certainly gave the best possible response.

I’ve tossed this one out before but I think it applies here as well as most situations in life.

This sad little lizard told me he was a brontosaurus on his mother’s side. I did not laugh, people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them. Humoring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply.

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Oso, maybe he needs to find out the hard way. lol. seriously, i train in a traditional CMA and i’ve got total respect for MMA fighters. i think cross-training is a good idea. i was a bit narrow minded when i was a newbie, but i started seeing value in more things than i used to. it’s too bad pizza guy thinks the way he does.

Seven star- congrats on the new school.

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Originally posted by Kristoffer
How is that a bad attitude? Maybe he’s just a newbie to ma and don’t really gets the big picture

nah, he mentioned that he is a black belt. What’s bad is the closed mindedness

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Originally posted by MasterKiller
No different than BJJers claiming they don’t need to know how to strike because they’ll just take you to the ground and pound you.

I’ve actually never heard any bjj guys claim that. I’ve heard them claim that they don’t need forms, but not striking.

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Even wise people sometimes say stupid things!

Listen to sum it all up.

People are people the world over.I’ve met TMA that are A-holes and i’ve met MMA that are A-holes as well.To say one side is more defensive than the other makes no sense.There is no way to come up with a accurate number of a-holes on either side.

I think what it is that both sides take their training seriously.Some seem to take it too serious.

From my travels on the internet it seems to be the MMA and grapplers that seem to have the most to say about others.You can not go to any forum where there are MMA ppl and Grapplers without them telling you how they can always take you down and pound you.

According to them there is nothing a striker can do to stop them from taking you down.Then to backup their point they point out how MMA and grapplers always take down strikers in Pride and the UFC and pound them into submission or tap them out.But to be honest i think most of the smack talking comes from the newbies and kids.

Alot of times i read these threads and don’t reply to them because i know it’s a death sentence.As soon as you say anything about defending yourself from the shoot or the guard everyone wants to tell you how you as a striker can not do it.Because as a striker it can’t be done from that position and so on.The same people that tell you this have never learned any striking arts or dwelled into them for a few weeks or months ,and think they know everything about striking.

Like i said it happens on both sides all the time.But when i go to forums it seems that the TMA people are always willing to talk things out back and forth.The Grapplers and MMA seem to always want to tell you how you’re wasting your time with a striking art.You rarely see TMA ppl bashing MMA and grapplers.But any forum on the internet you can always find MMA and grapplers bashing striking arts.From my travels i see that most TMA people respect MMA and grapplers.It’s those same people that have no respect for TMA.

I went into a rant but i think i made my point point?:smiley:

It happens on both sides!

jeff:)

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Originally posted by ninthdrunk
[B]This is a little off-topic, but I was wondering…

Do you guys that train the ground game think it is possible to avoid going to the ground? I mean for as much time as you spend working on that aspect, if someone else out there is training to avoid it couldnt that possibly throw everything off for you?[/b]

Of course it’s possible. that’s why many grapplers also train in a striking style, or at least have in some point in time.

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Originally posted by ninthdrunk
[B]Just because we dont train the grappling techniques like we do the other techniques in our forms, that doesnt mean they arent there. I have found applications to forms that result in throws and takedowns that other students dont see, does that mean they moves arent there because they havent seen it and they dont work on it? Im sorry, but that statement was just a little absurd. Excuse me…what I guess I should have said was:

“…we just dont train it as much.”

There, is that better?

Ben [/B]

He wasn’t saying the techniques weren’t there - he’s saying that if you really don’t train them, then you’ll really never use them.

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Jeff, just a reminder, not all combat sports are grappling and most mma guys are striking too.

your post had alot of generalizations in it. some true, some not.

oso - love the lizard and brontasouraus quote! mind if i use it? source?

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Re: Even wise people sometimes say stupid things!

Originally posted by jmd161
[B]Listen to sum it all up.

People are people the world over.I’ve met TMA that are A-holes and i’ve met MMA that are A-holes as well.To say one side is more defensive than the other makes no sense.There is no way to come up with a accurate number of a-holes on either side.

I think what it is that both sides take their training seriously.Some seem to take it too serious.

From my travels on the internet it seems to be the MMA and grapplers that seem to have the most to say about others.You can not go to any forum where there are MMA ppl and Grapplers without them telling you how they can always take you down and pound you.

According to them there is nothing a striker can do to stop them from taking you down.Then to backup their point they point out how MMA and grapplers always take down strikers in Pride and the UFC and pound them into submission or tap them out.But to be honest i think most of the smack talking comes from the newbies and kids.

Alot of times i read these threads and don’t reply to them because i know it’s a death sentence.As soon as you say anything about defending yourself from the shoot or the guard everyone wants to tell you how you as a striker can not do it.Because as a striker it can’t be done from that position and so on.The same people that tell you this have never learned any striking arts or dwelled into them for a few weeks or months ,and think they know everything about striking.

Like i said it happens on both sides all the time.But when i go to forums it seems that the TMA people are always willing to talk things out back and forth.The Grapplers and MMA seem to always want to tell you how you’re wasting your time with a striking art.You rarely see TMA ppl bashing MMA and grapplers.But any forum on the internet you can always find MMA and grapplers bashing striking arts.From my travels i see that most TMA people respect MMA and grapplers.It’s those same people that have no respect for TMA.

I went into a rant but i think i made my point point?:smiley:

It happens on both sides!

jeff:) [/B]

on the net, it’s typically, newbies, kids and trolls. I’ve got bjj friends and training partners who get threads deleted on mma.tv for trolling judo guys. IRL though, they respect them, and train with them. When I first started bjj, they were all very anxious to see my CMA - didn’t joke or anything. many of them had previously trained aikido, karate or something else. As far as they’re concerned, if it works for you, use it.

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Yeah that’s what i thought.

SevenStar ,

Yeah i figured it had to be pretty much those in that group that talk the most crap.

I train with some grapplers and mma ppl and the’re all very cool.

Some at the start did not respect kung fu or at least said that they did’nt,but they have changed their thoughts a little.some respect kung fu more now and others just respect me and the way i train.They point out not alot of strikers train like we do at my school.

jeff:)

19

ninthdrunk

Even more pertinent, you’ll never understand the application in your form if you don’t practice it. It might be THERE, but there are little nuances that really improve the way things work that you’ll never understand if it’s not common to practice them.

Even worse, as this continues–moves being treated as afterthoughts–the knowledge is lost as it’s passed down.

Think of all the phenomenally stupid ways people suggest countering shots and you’ll see what I mean.

As far as “can you avoid going to the ground?” Absolutely. But that involves learning to grapple–not like a champ, but to shake off the clinch/shot. Time and time again we’ve seen people try to just beat on the guy who is clinching to takedown and it just doesn’t work well. Your balance is off, the spacing is wrong…

Learn to grapple out then follow up. Guy Mezger is great at getting out of the clinch and following up with nice strikes.

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Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B]Jeff, just a reminder, not all combat sports are grappling and most mma guys are striking too.

your post had alot of generalizations in it. some true, some not.

[/B]

I agree ST00 i was very general.

When i say grapplers i mean wrestlers and Bjj people.I have never gotten any flack from any judo or other grappling arts.I know mma people are strikers also ,but when i say strikers i mean tradidtonal karate and kung fu people.Most mma people seem to see themselves more as grapplers than strikers.

But remember these are just the people i’ve come in contact with.

jeff:)