[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1215368]OK so again we can agree to have differing views. From my perspective your hands should already be up so no time needed there and as far as turning the structure or angling it takes less time for me to that than to duck, bob , weave etc its all a question of what you train and keeping the movement as small as possible. Wrt the structure not being strong enough again I’d say depends if you train your positions sufficiently, I’ve used it to stop very heavy shots from guys who know how to throw and who have 7 or 8 stone on me in bodyweight. Anyway, my main interest in this thread is hearing about different approaches rather than explaining/defending what I already do so I’ll shut up now and wait to see if anyone comes up with anything worth reading.[/QUOTE]
For me, I’ll just keep on doing what the best in the world keep proving over and over again is effective.
[QUOTE=Frost;1215205]Ive seen it taught as wayfring stats in a few boxing gyms its also how its taught in my main mma gym…but either way the defense showed will not work against a proper hook[/QUOTE]
You can do it both ways but the most common is transfer to the back leg for the hook.
Here’s a great article highlighting how Joe Louis did it with a good breakdown of the way he applied it
Thanks again Glenn for that good article and film on Louis’ jab and hook.He was the complete machine.
Larry Holmes had a powerful jab- he actually knocked down a heavyweight( Name and national origin-Puerto Rican or Cuban-?) witha jab to the center of the forehead.
Two ton Tony had a “heavv” but not as versatile left hook of his own. Importance of the right foot
or the left foot depends on training and how you develop the torque.
Thanks again Glenn for that good article and film on Louis’ jab and hook.He was the complete machine.
Larry Holmes had a powerful jab- he actually knocked down a heavyweight( Name and national origin-Puerto Rican or Cuban-?) witha jab to the center of the forehead.
Two ton Tony had a “heavv” but not as versatile left hook of his own. Importance of the right foot
or the left foot depends on training and how you develop the torque.[/QUOTE]
Yep, even boxing has styles within itself.
Yet they dont ***** about the differences like WCers!
Yet they dont ***** about the differences like WCers! ;)[/QUOTE]
True, but boxing has some more quality control- coaches, apprenticeship, records of achievements-
but wing chun has grown too rapidly spinning out of control where newbies begin lecturing as soon as they can… specially if they can get to a keyboard or click on youtube.
But also- boxing has its tremendous costs–Louis, Robinson, Frazier among so many others developed various ailments-Alzheimer, tremors.eye problems, nose problems …
Louis unscrewing light bulbs ina Las Vegas motel room-possible paranoia
An acquaintance of mine Alvin Williams fought Patterson 3 times- basically became a punching bag with shattered reflexes..
The apparent trick is to experience the dark side without being chewed up in the darkness.
Not sure how to counter the hook?? jeez, didn’t ya all watch Ip Man 2 ??!?!
Let’s see, we’ve got several ways in our wing chun system to deal with hook punches.
Footwork/Movement
We have a way we bend and slip, called “life after death”
For a proper close fast hook inside, we have a hand/arm position/form that’s sort of like a fook sao that’s real tight to your body and head, arm shaped like a ‘Z’, elbow raises, wrist is bent forward with fingers splayed a bit covering head and pointed forward. My sifu calls this ‘sa sao’ or something like that, i’ve never seen it written… To do it, elbow raises up quickly as wrist bends and hand withdraws to cover head. Sifu shows applications can have hand move around head to adjust cover, or can be rising elbow strike. Its in third section of our form, from pak -> sa sao -> jut. Its nice because it covers well and even though its retracted close to you, its like a coiled spring ready to counter. Could be double hands sa sao, or combined with wu, pak or whats needed.
For body hooks same as above but elbows drop and should be close to body covering ribs and we’d likely rotate/turn in if there was time for that extra motion.
Depending on angle etc, could use a close compacted pak across and bong turned into it.
If you either moved and timed it out enough away from you, or if its a long-hook or haymaker, can use bil sao to counter. Or even a hooked-out tan sao, although bil sao is a bit more stable with more options. and would be countering to center with counter strike, and prefer bil jee here over punch so that elbow/triceps is in better position to counter the hook from teh other side if he beats you.
So there are some good tools. But if you just chase hands and habitually over extend you’re gonna eat a lot of hooks…
I only learned a bit of wing chun from a friend, but if I were to counter a hook I would use the following block seen @00:25 where sifu Peterson is using a palm down block.
But footwork is needed. You have to step in and hit the attacker at the same time. Since we are stepping in close enough to clinch, I prefer a forearm shot to the side of the neck.
Also as with any fight, you need to watch the opponent’s habits. If he has a tendency to hook off the jab, you can use it to set him up for this technique. “Pretend” to block/guard against the jab, so he will hook.
Also useful close range block in transition of our ‘three star punch’ when fist or fists are up in a sort of ‘guard’ position, back of fists/forearms facing outward, done with a turn into the oncoming strike. depending on angle, range, timing can be used to counter a hook, round kick or even long weapon.
I had an incident doing bar security one night. The bar was closing I stopped two guys coming in and one gets in my face so I po pai him out of the door and follow him out. He swings a right hook without warning and I instinctively moved my jaw back and let it swing past. I then pak’ed the elbow stepping in quickly to prevent refacing and hit him 3 times until he dropped. No telegraphing, no warning, no foreknowledge.
Overturning himself as he tried to use too much force left him open to counter striking.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1215614]I had an incident doing bar security one night. The bar was closing I stopped two guys coming in and one gets in my face so I po pai him out of the door and follow him out. He swings a right hook without warning and I instinctively moved my jaw back and let it swing past. I then pak’ed the elbow stepping in quickly to prevent refacing and hit him 3 times until he dropped. No telegraphing, no warning, no foreknowledge.
Overturning himself as he tried to use too much force left him open to counter striking.[/QUOTE]
That couldn’t have happened! I mean you don’t see it use by the best fighters in mma, right!?!
[QUOTE=Bernard;1215585]I only learned a bit of wing chun from a friend, but if I were to counter a hook I would use the following block seen @00:25 where sifu Peterson is using a palm down block.
That has the same issue of going to the same side of the opponent’s hook as the other example did leading to the high probability of getting KTFO with the other hand.
Not to mention the fact that committing to intercepting the hook like that is a great way to get set up by the opponent’s feinting with the hook.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1215614]I had an incident doing bar security one night. The bar was closing I stopped two guys coming in and one gets in my face so I po pai him out of the door and follow him out. He swings a right hook without warning and I instinctively moved my jaw back and let it swing past. I then pak’ed the elbow stepping in quickly to prevent refacing and hit him 3 times until he dropped. No telegraphing, no warning, no foreknowledge.
Overturning himself as he tried to use too much force left him open to counter striking.[/QUOTE]
Nice. Yeah big difference between a proper nasty boxing punch that you’ll counter at the gym (I know you see a ton at Geasons) and the way 99% of people are gonna throw them in the “streetz” lol. Of course gotta be ready for anything.
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1215622]That has the same issue of going to the same side of the opponent’s hook as the other example did leading to the high probability of getting KTFO with the other hand.
Not to mention the fact that committing to intercepting the hook like that is a great way to get set up by the opponent’s feinting with the hook.[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t really matter if its a feint. We’re not really blocking or intercepting. These so-called blocking techniques in conjunction with the footwork are used to cover and take us off-line of the attack. And since we are already counterattacking, my attack is one beat ahead of any attack he can make with the other hand. We can’t talk about just techniques alone. It goes hand in hand with strategy and tactics.
[QUOTE=Bernard;1215629]It doesn’t really matter if its a feint. We’re not really blocking or intercepting. These so-called blocking techniques in conjunction with the footwork are used to cover and take us off-line of the attack. And since we are already counterattacking, my attack is one beat ahead of any attack he can make with the other hand. We can’t talk about just techniques alone. It goes hand in hand with strategy and tactics.[/QUOTE]
Once again, it’s very interesting that there is no actual verifiable evidence for this type of technique being used successfully on a consistent basis.
You must come from one of those thousands of wing chun schools that can only utilize your techniques in the secrecy of your school or in the r3alz world where there are no video cameras.
