[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1011951]Hey, here’s an idea:
Since both of you can do it better, why don’t you jump into some Muay Thai matches and see how well you can keep your hands up? You can post the clips of that here.
How about it? You guys are the WC “experts.” How about showing some of that expertise?[/QUOTE]
I’ve got an idea too… It involves your lips…and what you can do with them… 
Well technically it’s not his lips that are typing…
[quote=sanjuro_ronin;1011849]dude, people don’t like you because you are arrogant and obnoxious and preach the same message over and over again, like some religious convert.
Your message is that you need to test your ma with the highest caliber people you can find and adapt and make changes to make it work.
No one here denies that or thinks that is wrong, though some may argue how much of that is needed, they will not argue that it is needed.
People just don’t like you because you are a broken record with this.
Its you bro, not your message.[/quote]
***this…
anyone hear of this?
http://www.martialartinstitute.com/todays_topic_9_applied_wing_chun_in_thailand.htm
The title is a bit of a misnomer, as he didn’t use wing chun in the fight but muay thai. Wai po tang is a tough guy though. I remember seeing footage of him long ago.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1011917]If I remember correctly, there were two sets of matches. The WC people put together a team of WC fighters to go to Thailand. They fought with gloves and the WC people claimed that they lost because of this. There was another team of fighters who went over to fight with no gloves. They also lost. Because of the this, there became a popular saying in Thailand which was something along the lines of, “Kung fu cannot fight without gloves either.”[/QUOTE]
yep i remember reading about those too, the only wingchun guys i have heard of that have come close to doing well against thais also trained boxing or thai boxing as well, pure wing chun guys got destroyed
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1011849]Dude, people don’t like YOU because you are arrogant
[/QUOTE]
Yet, I’m one of the very few who admit to being not that good, who admits to regularly taking beatings, etc.
and obnoxious
You got me there.
and preach the same message over and over again, like some religious convert.
I preach the same message IN RESPONSE TO THE SAME NONSENSE. Why is it that the theoretical nonfighters can put the same old sh1t up over and over – I’ve been seeing it for almost 30 f#cking years – and no one complains about it?
Look, WCK is almost DEAD as a martial art. It’s on a respirator. Why the hell would anyone who wants to learn to fight today start practicing WCK? Who are they going to go to to learn? It’s either fantasy, theoretical guys or WCK kickboxers (who don’t need to learn WCK to do what they do).
I’m sorry it annoys you to have me constantly telling people to wake the f#ck up, but what is the alternative?
Your message is that you need to test your MA with the highest caliber people you can find and adapt and make changes to make it work.
That’s just a part of my “message”.
NO ONE here denies that or thinks that is wrong, though some may argue HOW MUCH of that is needed, they will not argue that it IS needed.
I don’t agree with you. WHO here is doing that? Who here is going to MMA schools and MT school and sparring, trying to make their WCK work? Tell me. Who? If they agreed with me they’d be doing it. They’re not.
And if they were, they wouldn’t be saying the nonsense that they spew.
People just don’t like you because you are a broken record with this.
Its you Bro, not your message.
Yeah, and the typical sh1t I hear about WCK is a broken record of nonsense. I can stop pointing out the nonsense, and what will we be left with?
T,
your wing chun teacher is technically a theoretical non-fighter. Why do you accord him so much respect and everyone else none? Why do you repeat his words and kuit if they are theoretical and not actually proven?
You should either not affiliate yourself with him or let us all rest in peace and consider us nonfighters to be just as good.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1012050]I preach the same message IN RESPONSE TO THE SAME NONSENSE. Why is it that the theoretical nonfighters can put the same old sh1t up over and over – I’ve been seeing it for almost 30 f#cking years – and no one complains about it?
Look, WCK is almost DEAD as a martial art. It’s on a respirator. Why the hell would anyone who wants to learn to fight today start practicing WCK? Who are they going to go to to learn? It’s either fantasy, theoretical guys or WCK kickboxers (who don’t need to learn WCK to do what they do).
I’m sorry it annoys you to have me constantly telling people to wake the f#ck up, but what is the alternative? [/QUOTE]
A better question would be why are you so obsessed with what other people are doing and why do you feel you are responsible for telling people to as you put it wake the **** up?
maybe if you spent less time trying to “enlighten” people on here and more time training you wouldn’t be getting you ass kicked regularly in your gym
dont ya think?
[QUOTE=goju;1012055]A better question would be why are you so obsessed with what other people are doing and why do you feel you are responsible for telling people to as you put it wake the **** up?
maybe if you spent less time trying to “enlighten” people on here and more time training you wouldn’t be getting you ass kicked regularly in your gym
dont ya think?[/QUOTE]
I’m not obsessed with other people, I’m concerned about the state of something I hold dear (WCK). It’s dying. It’s almost gone. I don’t think it’s going to make it.
I train 4-5 days a week. That’s about the limit of what my body can take. If I do more, I burn out, start getting injured, etc.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1012059]I’m not obsessed with other people, I’m concerned about the state of something I hold dear (WCK). It’s dying. It’s almost gone. I don’t think it’s going to make it.
I train 4-5 days a week. That’s about the limit of what my body can take. If I do more, I burn out, start getting injured, etc.[/QUOTE]
Of course you are
you jump all over everyones posts and criticize it and tell them they dont know what they are doing and they’ve never trained with this or that blah blah blah
and youve been doing this for quite some time apparently from what ive read
this being noted it very safe to say you are extremely obsessed with what posters on here are doing which is quite weird to say the least
further since youre “not that good” i thought id help you with a bit of advice ( id like to think im pretty good)
your regular “beatings” as you put it shouldnt be happening
sure everyone here who trains hard and with a quality gym gets roughed up here and there but if you are regularly getting slapped around at where ever you train then you are sparring with people who are at waaaaay too high of a level for you and you and your gym should be responsible enough to put you with partners who are at your level so you will actually learn something instead of getting stomped
and if you are so concerned about your art dieing then why didnt you ever train hard enough to where you were very skilled?
the best way to presere your art is through your own efforts
as they say if you want to get things done right then do them yourself:D
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1012050]Yet, I’m one of the very few who admit to being not that good, who admits to regularly taking beatings, etc.
You got me there.
I preach the same message IN RESPONSE TO THE SAME NONSENSE. Why is it that the theoretical nonfighters can put the same old sh1t up over and over – I’ve been seeing it for almost 30 f#cking years – and no one complains about it?
Look, WCK is almost DEAD as a martial art. It’s on a respirator. Why the hell would anyone who wants to learn to fight today start practicing WCK? Who are they going to go to to learn? It’s either fantasy, theoretical guys or WCK kickboxers (who don’t need to learn WCK to do what they do).
I’m sorry it annoys you to have me constantly telling people to wake the f#ck up, but what is the alternative?
That’s just a part of my “message”.
I don’t agree with you. WHO here is doing that? Who here is going to MMA schools and MT school and sparring, trying to make their WCK work? Tell me. Who? If they agreed with me they’d be doing it. They’re not.
And if they were, they wouldn’t be saying the nonsense that they spew.
Yeah, and the typical sh1t I hear about WCK is a broken record of nonsense. I can stop pointing out the nonsense, and what will we be left with?[/QUOTE]
I am not saying I disagree with you T, I am just saying that your message is getting lost because of HOW you say it and because you have no credibility to say it to the people you wanna get it across.
I like you and while I don’t agree with the mode of your message, I agree with it, 100%.
There is no reason for me to like you, I don’t know you and you are an ass on th internet, but I see the passion you have for WCk and I respect that and from that, a “like” feeling grew.
But I do dislike your one sided and extremist views at times, but I have personal issues with extremissim, so.
[QUOTE=MysteriousPower;1012054]T,
your wing chun teacher is technically a theoretical non-fighter. Why do you accord him so much respect and everyone else none? Why do you repeat his words and kuit if they are theoretical and not actually proven?
You should either not affiliate yourself with him or let us all rest in peace and consider us nonfighters to be just as good.[/QUOTE]
The TMAs traditionally have two parts – the curriculum and applying that curriculum. To use an analogy, the curriculum is like learning how the pieces move in chess and the “rules” (objectives, etc.) of the game, and applying that curriculum is actually playing the game of chess (which involves moving the pieces).
The founders of WCK, our ancestors, created the game, and they passed down the curriculum which is historically comprised of the faat mun, the kuen kuit, the forms, the dummy, and the exercises/drills. These are the pieces of the puzzle, or to go back to my analogy. how the pieces move and the “rules” of the game. All any traditional WCK sifu (that is one who uses the classical curriculum) can give you is the curriculum, the pieces to the puzzle. They can’t put the pieces together for you.
What I object to is when people who don’t even play the game (and many times don’t even know how the pieces move) tell others how to play and/or confuse the curriculum with playing the game. My view is that people should restrict themselves to teaching what they themselves can do. Robert always did that with me.
Many people in WCK don’t have the full curriculum. Do they need it? Well, let’s just say it can’t hurt to have it. I didn’t have it when I went to Robert. I had practiced WCK for 17 years (and had the forms, dummy, drills, some kuit), but knew I must be missing pieces since I couldn’t make WCK work to my satisfaction (I could not move in sparring using only WCK movement, for example). I was doing pretty much what everyone else was doing. Robert filled in missing pieces of the curriculum for me. He has studied with lots of people, many various lineages, etc. and from that has pieced together what is at the core of the WCK curriculum. He taught me the method (faat mun) – which is the organizing “principle” of WCK, he taught me body structure (how to use my body to implement the faat, etc.
But I didn’t just accept this as gospel. I understood that these things were only the pieces to the puzzle. I had to put the puzzle together for myself through hard work (kung fu). By doing that work, I saw for myself, through direct experience, what was useful and what wasn’t.
I continually say when I make posts that my views are my own, and that I don’t speak for Robert. All my views are based on my personal, direct experience, not what Robert told me. These are things I have found to be true through my experience. Some things Robert told me I have validated for myself, other things I have found to not be valid. But again, Robert told me NOT to accept anything he said as true or valid – he told me to “let application be my sifu”, not him. To find out what was true by and through fighting, not by accepting dogma.
Read the following blog:
http://caneprevost.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/bullsh1t-meter/ (replace bullsh1t with the proper spelling to get the link to work).
That explains why if you are training/practicing properly, you will find the truth on your own.
[QUOTE=goju;1012061]
your regular “beatings” as you put it shouldnt be happening
sure everyone here who trains hard and with a quality gym gets roughed up here and there but if you are regularly getting slapped around at where ever you train then you are sparring with people who are at waaaaay too high of a level for you and you and your gym should be responsible enough to put you with partners who are at your level so you will actually learn something instead of getting stomped
[/QUOTE]
Please don’t talk about things you know nothing about. You have absolutely no idea what my level is, who I am training with, etc. I will listen to expert fight trainers that I have sought out to train with about how to train and not a theoretical nonfighter like you if it is all the same to you.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1012067]Please don’t talk about things you know nothing about. You have absolutely no idea what my level is, who I am training with, etc. [/QUOTE]
funny because this exactly the kind of advice you should take into consideration for yourself
you criticize how many people on this board? and with out having ever met or trained with them
and your views of these peoples is entirely speculation to make it worse
my comment above you quoted is based simply on common sense
nice job avoiding this by the way
[QUOTE=goju;1012067]and if you are so concerned about your art dieing then why didnt you ever train hard enough to where you were very skilled?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1012064]The TMAs traditionally have two parts – the curriculum and applying that curriculum. To use an analogy, the curriculum is like learning how the pieces move in chess and the “rules” (objectives, etc.) of the game, and applying that curriculum is actually playing the game of chess (which involves moving the pieces).
The founders of WCK, our ancestors, created the game, and they passed down the curriculum which is historically comprised of the faat mun, the kuen kuit, the forms, the dummy, and the exercises/drills. These are the pieces of the puzzle, or to go back to my analogy. how the pieces move and the “rules” of the game. All any traditional WCK sifu (that is one who uses the classical curriculum) can give you is the curriculum, the pieces to the puzzle. They can’t put the pieces together for you.
What I object to is when people who don’t even play the game (and many times don’t even know how the pieces move) tell others how to play and/or confuse the curriculum with playing the game. My view is that people should restrict themselves to teaching what they themselves can do. Robert always did that with me.
Many people in WCK don’t have the full curriculum. Do they need it? Well, let’s just say it can’t hurt to have it. I didn’t have it when I went to Robert. I had practiced WCK for 17 years (and had the forms, dummy, drills, some kuit), but knew I must be missing pieces since I couldn’t make WCK work to my satisfaction (I could not move in sparring using only WCK movement, for example). I was doing pretty much what everyone else was doing. Robert filled in missing pieces of the curriculum for me. He has studied with lots of people, many various lineages, etc. and from that has pieced together what is at the core of the WCK curriculum. He taught me the method (faat mun) – which is the organizing “principle” of WCK, he taught me body structure (how to use my body to implement the faat, etc.
But I didn’t just accept this as gospel. I understood that these things were only the pieces to the puzzle. I had to put the puzzle together for myself through hard work (kung fu). By doing that work, I saw for myself, through direct experience, what was useful and what wasn’t.
I continually say when I make posts that my views are my own, and that I don’t speak for Robert. All my views are based on my personal, direct experience, not what Robert told me. These are things I have found to be true through my experience. Some things Robert told me I have validated for myself, other things I have found to not be valid. But again, Robert told me NOT to accept anything he said as true or valid – he told me to “let application be my sifu”, not him. To find out what was true by and through fighting, not by accepting dogma.
Read the following blog:
http://caneprevost.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/bullsh1t-meter/ (replace bullsh1t with the proper spelling to get the link to work).
That explains why if you are training/practicing properly, you will find the truth on your own.[/QUOTE]
What a nut job.. (is there a doctor in the house?)
You know, what T is basically saying is that, regardless of style or teacher, you pretty much have to tailor a MA to yourself and you do it by pressure testing.
Nothing crazy about that.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1012099]You know, what T is basically saying is that, regardless of style or teacher, you pretty much have to tailor a MA to yourself and you do it by pressure testing.
Nothing crazy about that.[/QUOTE]
C’mon… His psychosis runs a hell of a lot deeper (and longer) than that–an intricate weave of nuttiness to compensate and justify all the inconsistencies, insults and generally insane and incessant posting.
As you said we all agree with the “core”… It’s the apple that’s rotten.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1012099]You know, what T is basically saying is that, regardless of style or teacher, you pretty much have to tailor a MA to yourself and you do it by pressure testing.
Nothing crazy about that.[/QUOTE]
but taking six paragraphs to say what you said in one sentence certainly is nuts LOL
[QUOTE=goju;1012102]but taking six paragraphs to say what you said in one sentence certainly is nuts LOL[/QUOTE]
You guys forget that T is a lawyer, it takes him 6 paragraphs and one deposition to say good morning.