Now if we could only find links to Chinese Nunchukus (edit: Two-section staff) are quest for kung fu legitimacy would be complete!
Again with Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming’s “Ancient Chinese Weapons - A Martial Artist’s Guide”… he asserts that the Nunchaku came from the Cangue Staff (Lian Ja Gun)… Created during the Northern Song Dynasty (960 - 1127 A.D.).
I cannot say that I have the background to assert as to Dr. Yang’s historical credentials, but it is interesting.
If I see one more person call nunchuks a “two-section staff” I’m gonna punch the Dukes of Hazzard fan in the next cubicle just out of principle.
Originally posted by MasterKiller
If I see one more person call nunchuks a “two-section staff” I’m gonna punch the Dukes of Hazzard fan in the next cubicle just out of principle.
LOL! 
Do you really need an excuse to puch the DOH fan?
GM, does Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming call this weapon a Nunchuku? Or even Numchuku? 
"yeah it was the sais.
it wasn’t the gis, the poorly contrived history, or anything else. it was the sais."
Already took care of the “gi” issue too… Now your arguments are “poorly contrived history, or anything else”.
Short Sweeper is the usual name. I know of Mok gar and Baji schools that teach it.
Notice the 97-in. length. Hardly what you would call nunchuks.
Already took care of the “gi” issue too
Uh…no you didn’t.
Theres quite a few TCMA schools that Ive seen in Gi’s… Pictures of SC dudes in Gi’s as well… anyone who thinks SC isnt a legit TCMA is retarded. If Gi’s de-legitimize an art, then the latter is true. which its not.
Originally posted by MasterKiller
Uh…no you didn’t.
The gi issue is the most irrelevant argument against SD in my opinion. Not that I even wear a gi; different schools wear different uniforms.
I understand that two-section staff is also known as the “lashing staff” and is a different weapon (I said that because I know it gets a rise out of you ), but I wasn’t aware of the term “short sweeper.” Anyone here train that weapon?
Hey everyone, SD trains in Shuia Chiao now.
Guess what…SD takes Shuia Chaio lessons.
Everyone hear that? SD takes Shaui Chaio lessons.
Shuai Chiao, people…SD is taking lessons.
That’s right, SD is taking Shuai Chiao lessons.
OK…I think everyone heard it that time. Let’s move on.
The gi issue is the most irrelevant argument against SD in my opinion.
I agree, somewhat. I mean, it really doesn’t matter what you wear. What I don’t buy is the expalantion for why SD trains in GIs. If you want to wear them because they are cheap, practical, comfortable, whatever, more power to you.
But the argument that the GI is traditional because Shaolin monk’s wear wrap-around Buddhist robes is ridiculous.
In fact, I don’t have a problem with Sais or Nunchuks if you admit where the influence comes from. But changing the name to “2 section staff” seems like they are trying hard to make history fit Sin The’s system in order to legitimize his claims.
Just call it what it is, and no one would really care. It’s the *******ization of accepted history that gets most people’s goats.
Lashing staff refers to the long 2 section staff shown by MK, also known as a big sweeper. The Short sweeper is a more nunchaku style weapon, although often has a longer section and a shorter section (kinda like a scaled down lashing staff, hence the name).
Fu Jow Pai guys wear Gis with a similar explanation, are they dodgy?..
OK, They’re nice Chinesified Gis, and this is a blatant troll but…
Buddhist robes are for Buddhists. They are not martial arts uniforms. That’s not saying all wrap-around outfits are Buddhist robes, but if you claim your are wearing it BECAUSE of Shaolin, then I would say you are being sacreligeous.
Catholics don’t walk around in pope outfits, unless they attend Temple Kung Fu classes, that is.
Originally posted by Fred Sanford
yeah it was the sais. :rolleyes:
it wasn’t the gis, the poorly contrived history, or anything else. it was the sais.
Dude,
That was one of the arguments and like Shaolin Do said we have successfully combated the others as well. It really ticks me off when you people bring arguments on here against us that once defeated you make no acknowledgment at all.
Even if we had a freakin time machine and I took you back to the temple with Grandmaster Su teaching at you would still find some way to weasel out of it. Your type disgusts me.
Fu Jow Pai guys wear Gis with a similar explanation, are they dodgy?..
OK, They’re nice Chinesified Gis, and this is a blatant troll but…
What the heck is a Chinesified Gi, and who are these Fu Jow Pai guys that wore gis to trick the Japanese?
Anyway, I think two section staff is a different weapon than a numbchuk (:D) All the pics of antique one’s I’ve seen have looked like this one: http://www.wle.com/media/W110.jpg except many seemed to have what looked like a bolt or something wraped around the ends… I’ll try to find the pics later
Also it’s not the sais that causes critisizm of SD, it’s more like a combination of A LOT of various issues. Surprised no one’s bought GM Sin’s biography and picked apart that yet though
Originally posted by MasterKiller
[B]
But the argument that the GI is traditional because Shaolin monk’s wear wrap-around Buddhist robes is ridiculous.
In fact, I don’t have a problem with Sais or Nunchuks if you admit where the influence comes from. But changing the name to “2 section staff” seems like they are trying hard to make history fit into Sin The’s system to legitimize his claims. [/B]
I don’t think I buy into that argument either although It’s possible that there may have been CMAs training in outfits similar to gis in China prior to the boxer rebellion. (I’m not saying Buddhist robes either). I was interested in the Fujian White Crane people wearing gis was interesting since their lineage is arguably close to ours (China to Indonesia thing) Gis were probably cheaper, more durable, and more accessible in 1960s Kentucky also, but that can’t be all there was to the debate since paintings and pictures of the The brothers from Indonesia show them wearing gis and their teacher wearing a traditional Chinese attire. I frankly don’t care about this part of the debate.
The sai weapon I think has been explained as a traditional southern Chinese weapon that was popularized by Okinawan Karate. The Nunchuku weapon is a bit more troubling.
Nunckukus are such a simple and practical design for a weapon that one would think that the Chinese who have such exotic and esoteric weapons like 3 section staff, chain whip, lashing staffs etc would also have a weapon akin to the nunchucku. (Then again, they discovered gunpowder but did not invent the gun ). The short sweeper comes close, but the lengths of the staffs are not equal and therefore distinguishable from the nunchucku.
The argument that use of the weapon is influenced by Karate and, more probably, Americans conceptions of what weapons you should learn in a martial art is compelling, but I’m not willing to say that’s all there is to this side of the debate yet.
Edit: Simmer down there themecer. You should know to igore Fred on this. :rolleyes:
me off when you people bring arguments on here against us that once defeated you make no acknowledgment at all.
Hardly anything was explained 
“OK…I think everyone heard it that time. Let’s move on.”
Aww, mk gettin irate that SD has some err… “TCMA” ground to argue pro-SD points from? Irritated that I can make comparisons to the 2 and invalidate stupid arguments?
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
Hey, guess what. SD practices shaolin do!
Hey everybody, SD practices shaolin-do!
Did you know that I practice shaolin-do?
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Good morning mk, how are you doing this fine morning?
Gis were probably cheaper, more durable, and more accessible in 1960s Kentucky also
Cheaper than a Steely Dan T-Shirt and sweat pants?
FWIW, the Chinese tops are not martial arts uniforms, either. They are clothes cut in the manner of traditional Chinese clothing, which is what Chinese people wore all day, and therefore practiced in. As far as I’m concerned, there is no such thing as a Chinese martial arts uniform.
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Good morning mk, how are you doing this fine morning?
Baby was up all night. Grrrrr…
Cant say I buy into the buddhist robe thing either… Seems more like an off the top of the head explanation…
Another explanation I have heard is that the Karate gi’s are significantly cheaper… Dunno how that plays into things in regards to the schools openings in the 70’s or whatnot…
[i]
Good morning mk, how are you doing this fine morning?
He’ll feel a lot better after a cup of coffee and he punches the guy in the next cubicle.
Actually, SD you seem to be in a bad mood yourself. The tourney got you down?
