I am looking at switching to WC and have been getting all the opinions that I can about the two schools here. What I’m interested in knowing is
What are the differences between what Buddy Wu (Ho Kam Ming student) teaches and what Carl Dechiara’s (Leung Sheng/Kenneth Chung) schools teach, and
Where does the apparent animosity come from that makes Dechiara’s students blast Master Wu?
Thanks in advance,
Sean
Sean,
Go and visit each school and see the differences in person. Touch buddy’s hands and Carl’s. See what you like the best.
I wasn’t aware that there was “animosity” between us.
Hi Odie-Wan
I think you should watch a few classes in each places if you can before making a choice.Both are serious and good lineage and can bring you to a hight level but the road to this level can be a lot different.Touching hands if you are not experimented in Wing Chun is useless because anybody will be able to punch you at will in any of those schools.Look instead for the approach you feel will fit you the best.Do you like some contact?..Do you prefer a more internal approach?..
different approaches
AtLeastImNotYou & Old Jong,
As I read more of the old threads, I see that most of the negative comments about Buddy Wu come from R5A. I can dicount one person’s opinion. Sorry if he misrepresented the rest of you.
I will definitely try to go to both schools and talk to the instructors. I have been interested in Wing Chun since I was a young man but it seemed that I was stationed somewhere without a WC school or I was continuing studies from the last duty station. I come from a predominantly Kenpo background (current) with some forays into Aikido and Shootfighting.
Part of my focus is always on application so I would have some misgivings about an approach that is TOO internal. From Aikido studies though I believe in the power from projected ki/chi, so internal training has some value with me.
What is the difference in their approaches
Carl is very precise and spends a lot of time on positioning, structure, and whole body unity. The pace is slower (you’re not going to learn the whole system in a year), but is well worth it. I would guess that Carl/Ken’s system has more of an internal emphasis, but I know nothing about Buddy Wu, so keep that in mind.
JMHO
Odie-Wan
Like you say so well!..‘‘It’s not the art,it’s the artist’’ …R5A has his definitive opinions about all that is not from his lineage but that does’nt makes his lineage bad!
Just take your times to choose so you will find the best for you. 
This business of touching hands is somewhat humorous.
It takes knowledge to understand what you have touched
and what the tiucher intended to convey to the touchee, if anything.
Even in his prime Ali had soft hands- but there be thunder there..
Read, listen, talk, visit- then make up your own mind.I have nothing but respect for Kenneth C and most of his students.
And, if someone has made snide remarks about Wu- shame on their ignorance.
Originally posted by yuanfen
This business of touching hands is somewhat humorous.
It takes knowledge to understand what you have touched
and what the tiucher intended to convey to the touchee, if anything.
I wasnt talking about doing chi sau or anything. but sean has had martial arts experience so he will be able to know if what he is being told and shown is the real deal. he will also be able to tell if there is skill there. etc.
Re: Cleveland WC
Originally posted by Odie-wan
[B]I am looking at switching to WC and have been getting all the opinions that I can about the two schools here. What I’m interested in knowing is
What are the differences between what Buddy Wu (Ho Kam Ming student) teaches and what Carl Dechiara’s (Leung Sheng/Kenneth Chung) schools teach, and
Where does the apparent animosity come from that makes Dechiara’s students blast Master Wu?
Thanks in advance,
Sean [/B]
Hi Sean,
I think you’re in a win-win situation for choosing. But, coming from Carl’s lineage (he’s my Si Sook–my teacher’s “younger brother”), I hope you choose Carl. What Ken Chung tries to convey in his lineage is precision and positioning, sensitivity, and a strong horse. Plus, someday you may get to meet and train with me.
But if you choose Buddy Wu, as Joy endorses him, I’m sure you’ll be in good hands. I’m not knowledgable enough to differentiate Ho Kam Ming’s differences or emphases at this time, but his lineage is strong, as exemplified by Augustine Fong and Joy Chaudhuri. My experiences of three students who have come from Augustine’s line is that they were already very good when they moved and enrolled in my teacher’s school, and they have continued to improve while continuing to hold their former lineage and teachers in high esteem.
While some have been critical of other lineages, take it with a grain of salt. Visit the schools in question and try to decide which teaching style seems to fit you best. There is likely room for both schools in Cleveland.
Good luck in your training.
Regards,
Originally posted by yuanfen
This business of touching hands is somewhat humorous.
It takes knowledge to understand what you have touched
and what the tiucher intended to convey to the touchee, if anything.
Even in his prime Ali had soft hands- but there be thunder there..
Read, listen, talk, visit- then make up your own mind.I have nothing but respect for Kenneth C and most of his students.
And, if someone has made snide remarks about Wu- shame on their ignorance.
Agreed, Joy. As for the value of touching someone’s hands. Somewhere along the way I realized that pretty much everyone could beat me up, so that wasn’t good enough criteria for evaluating one approach over another, LOL. My lot seemed to improve substantially when I refocused my examinations on whether or not I could realistically expect to develop the kinds of skills they were trying to impart (even if not to same degree … but who knows 
).
Odie-wan, I too don’t know the particulars of how Buddy teaches, and agree with the suggestions thus far to assess and compare for yourself. FWIW, an old friend and former training partner hooked up with Buddy Wu some time back. Haven’t heard from him in quite awhile now, but last reports were that he was very happy with in Buddy’s school and with his training there.
While I’ve never participated in Carl’s regular classes, I do know something of his overall approach, as we learn from the same teacher, and I’ve met many of his students. I believe that his emphasis on strong foundation and skill building is sound and a service to those who choose to learn from him. Carl is also able to effectively demonstrate why we practice as we do, and I’m sure he would do his best to satisfy your interest in that regard along with an overview of the “basics.” A number of Carl’s students engage in frequent sparring, perhaps even earlier relative to others in our lineage; so you might inquire about that too if it happens to interest to you. Of course there are lots of other avenues to explore with both Carl and Buddy, depending on your interests, goals, and concerns.
I have not yet seen any single technical approach, teacher, school or “culture” that seems to suit everyone’s values and predilections. Sadly, not even ours. Much as I love and value what and how we are taught and practice, I believe it is most important for each and every one to feel they’ve made the best choice for themselves.
So … best wishes in your search.
Regards,
Thanks
Thanks to all who have offered some guidance. I appreciate you taking the time. I’ll spend some time with each school before deciding. About a month ago I decided to take off the rest of the year from my Kenpo studies to let a low back sprain heal. Kicks are the biggest culprit. I think that in the long term, WC will be a better choice for someone with a history of back problems, no?
Odie-wan, never met Buddy Wu, never made any specific comments about the guy, although I have a feeling what Carl teaches is much more sound By all means though, go to each school and see for yourself.
surely obi-wan you know red5, you are both jedi no?
Yes…
Young and impetuous. Filled with anger, he is. The dark side is seductive.
Odie-Wan, check your pm.
Odie-Wan
email
vmunguia@yahoo.com
He teaches TWC and lives in Cleveland.
TWC
Sifu Redmond - Is TWC Temple WC or Traditional or ?? Just clueless I guess. Also, I sent you an email asking for the Cleveland contact’s name. I’d like to send him/her an email but I would like to know how to address it. Thank you.
Sean
Re: Thanks
Originally posted by Odie-wan
Thanks to all who have offered some guidance. I appreciate you taking the time. I’ll spend some time with each school before deciding. About a month ago I decided to take off the rest of the year from my Kenpo studies to let a low back sprain heal. Kicks are the biggest culprit. I think that in the long term, WC will be a better choice for someone with a history of back problems, no?
I had back surgery so I pretty much had to drop my other MA training. Wing Chun has been great. The stance really helps expand my herniated disk, and has actually improved my situation. I would highly reccomend it if you’ve had back problems.
Sean,
It’s Traditional Wing Chun. The guys name is Vladimir Munguia.
I taught at Yale University from 1989 to 1984. Vlad was a student of mine there and contiued training in WC after he graduated. He stayed and trained with me in New Haven CT for a few years and recently moved back to Cleveland. If your were refering to the Temple Wing Chun site they are also Traditional Wing Chun.
I hope this helps
odie-wan,
Just to throw my 2 cents in here…
My guess would be that not many posters here have had firsthand experience w/ both buddy and carl (myself included–my experience is w/ the former), so it would be difficult for someone to outline the differences in approach, training, etc. that you seem to be looking for. And perhaps more importantly, you’re fairly unlikely to get an objective opinion, as you’ve probably noticed.
As many have suggested, check out both places. Good luck.
oh, and kj,
Just wondering if your friend is still training wing chun..I may know him..what’s his name? first name is fine.