CLFNole,
years ago my old sifu called sup gi " the great escape form" and i even saw it mentioned on a certificate he got from LKH - it said Sup Gi Kao Da - ‘Great Escape’. Have you ever heared of this before? Could be like a call name for the form or something like that?
E
Wong Doc Fai’s book (“Choy Li Fut Kung-Fu”) translates Sup Ji Gau Da Kuen as Cross Pattern of Kau-Da Hand Form. 
I think Cross Pattern Hook Strike Fist is a good translation.
I call it Sup Gee Kow Da Kuen. To me the chinese doesn’t translate well to english. So I call it what it is, I am not much for calling the forms with english names the chinese is easier actually.
Peace.
P.S. Eddie, never heard that one before. Remember at the time when Morne followed LKH he never little if any english and his students at the university would have helped him with the english. If you have sifu’s 1st book you can see their english translations were not that good.
Dai Sup Ji Kow Da Kuen
I have heard it translated to “Big Cross Fighting Fist”.
Does anyone train the Block Tiger Fist: Jit Fu Kuen? I don’t hear this set mentioned much.
Didn’t know there was a form with that name. I know we use the Jit Fu Choy technique quite a bit in our forms.
CLFNole/Fu Pow - Is Jit Fu Choy used in any other stance beside Gwai Ma and Kau Ma in the LKH forms?
123
Weaving together
To Golden A. :
I have always known it as Kau= hooks, Dah=strike.
The hook being similar to what ej said, as in hooking together, or weaving together two buttons on a coat.
Makes sense in that this is a form which interconnects the main concepts on a technical level.
GSC
CLFNole/Fu Pow - Is Jit Fu Choy used in any other stance beside Gwai Ma and Kau Ma in the LKH forms?
I assume you are referring to a downward lower block. My Sifu calls that move “Bei” but I’m not sure what that means.
The Fu Ying form uses that technique from a leaning horse stance. I believe the stance is called Ji Ng Ma.
You could really do that motion from a lot of different stances as long as you have the weight transfer and power generation correct. Thats the cool thing about CLF.
Fu Pow- do you know off the top of your head if it’s done in Ji Ng Ma or Sei Ping Ma in any form? Just curious.
I heard that back in the day, Tat Mau Wong was the full contact ring fighter guy, and Mak Hin Fai was the Kong Sau, street fighter guy. Pretty sweet!
123
Yut yee sam-
Ji Ng Ma I believe.
I’ll try to describe the movement.
You just did a right hand fu jow while standing on your left leg in a crane stance.
You swing both hands down in a circular motion and to the right while you step forward on to your right foot.
You jump off that same right foot and as your hands complete their circle over your head your left hand blocks up and to the left. Your right hand blocks out and down with a closed fist. The stance you end up in is not quite bow stance and not quite horse stance. Its in between, like a Ji Ng Ma.
A bow stance …but the back leg is not quite straight.
I learned that particular move in sei ping ma, but you could do it in a leaning horse as well. I think I have it in a lok gwai ma in a real old video I have.
I really don’t like the sei ping ma much and prefer a bit of a lean.
Peace.
P.S. the part in Sub Gee you guys are referring to is generally referred to kow ma jeet sow, sheung ma bei fu. Jeet sow would be intercepting arm/fist. Bei fu not sure don’t think it means “northern tiger” thats for sure.
Originally posted by Fu-Pow
[B]
I assume you are referring to a downward lower block. My Sifu calls that move “Bei” but I’m not sure what that means.
[/B]
Some say “pay” with more a p than b sound. It is a cutting motion.
Imagine you are holding a piece of sugar cane in front of you pointing slightly downward and you try to peel the tough skin with a knife on the other hand going from inside to outside of your body, that is a “pay” or “bei” motion.
When you do the same with your forearm to block, it is called a “jit kiu”. When you do it with a charp choy pointing at the same direction of your block (turning fist at the wrist) it is called a “jit fu choy”, it is a downward block and strike at the same time. It “pay” away your opponent’s strike and counter at the same time.
Hmmmm…interesting.
We have a move where we do an outward block/strike with a leopard fist but my Sifu calls it Cheong Ahn Chui. It sounds like what you are describing but it goes more upward.
CLFNole would know the combination:
Cheong Ahn Chui-Poon Kiu (same hand)-Sao Chui (opposite hand)
Perhaps the “Cheong Ahn Chui” is more acurately described by this Jit Fu movement Extrajoseph is describing.
Also, for CLF Nole, my Sifu calls a combination Gwa Chui-Faan Jong (like the 3 in a row in Sup Ji Kau Dah) because the first movement is upward I think it might more accurately be called Pow Chui-Faan Jong. Any thoughts on this?
jit fu
Hi
I haven’t learn many forms (and I am not sure the same as Jit Fu Kuen) but I have learned a form called “Sup Ji Jit Fu” ~ I think it roughly translate as “Cross Pattern Blocking Tiger”
Also a move called “Lok Kuai Jit Fu” ~ “kneeling down stance blocking tiger”
the move is done usually by jumping into the stance by have the left hand doing a counter-clock wise motion semi circle block from inside the body to above the head and the right forming a fist clench blocking below.
I think Extrajoseph know what I am saying
Fu-Pow,
In our “cheung ahn chui” we go straight for the eyes without blocking. In a “jit fu chui” done upward, we block (“pay” upward) with the forearm (kiu seo)and counter attack at the same time. The former is a pure attacking move in a straight line, the latter is a block/attack simutaneous move done in a curve line. Sometimes we can just block and push the punch away like a “chuin” except done with a charp chui.
Iron-silk,
It sounds like some people here don’t do the “sup ji jit fu kuen”, it may not be in their curriculum.
I know what you mean by “lok guai jit fu”, it is a downward and outward block with the forearm, we sometimes called it “lok guai ji kiu”. Most “hoi jong” (openning protocol) in the primary level forms have this move.
Fu-Pow:
With what Extrajoseph said about jeet fu, that is how we do the sequence in sup gee you were referring to jeet fu fahn jong. Blocking upward with the kiu sow then following with the fahn jong.
To your other point the thing I think you are referring to is called wang deng choy. It is seen in Tuet Tsin Kuen (in the beginning). The technique in Fu Pow Kuen is similar but more like Extrajoseph said somewhat of a chin with a panther fist alougth ours goes out somewhat to hit and block, so it could be thought of as a “wang deng choy” as well.
Extrajoseph what would “wang deng” mean I was thinking something like to nail from the side or across. Anyway not sure.
Peace.
Originally posted by CLFNole
xtrajoseph what would “wang deng” mean I was thinking something like to nail from the side or across. Anyway not sure.
Peace.
“Wang deng” - a nail penetrating at an angle, some people also called it a “chuin charp”.
So are “wang deng chui”, “chuin charp chui” and “jit fu chui” all mean the same thing? Not quite.
In 'wang deng chui" the emphasis is in the “deng”, the nail penetrating the target. Sometimes we drop the last 2 digits of a charp chui (the small and the ring finger) and press the index with our thumb to “nail” with a phenix eye like srtike with the middle knuckle to “deng”.
In “chuin charp chui” the emphasis is in the charp and we use “chuin” to get around to our target. There is a distinct twisting of the forearm to achieve our goal that is missing in the other two.
In “jit fu chui” the emphasis is in the “jit fu” and “pay or bei” block with the forearm, the “chui”, or the flat hammer fist, comes after. Sometimes we even strike with the “kiu seo”, or the bridge hand, instead of the “chui”, we called this "pay da’, “jit da” or just “jit fu” without referring to the “chui”.
So in each case we hit the target in a slight different way, like a nail (wang deng chui), like a screw (chuin charp chui) and like a stick (jit fu chui).
I hope this makes it clearer and not more confusing for people.
Yes makes perfect sense…
These techniques look almost the same but the INTENTION is different.
Great convo guys.
Originally posted by Fu-Pow
[B]Yes makes perfect sense…
These techniques look almost the same but the INTENTION is different.
Great convo guys. [/B]
Therefore it is important to know and to understand the meanings of each move. Only by working with the details we can improve our form.
What do you guys know about Tit Jin Cheung Kuen (Iron Arrow Long Fist)? Just out of curiosity. Does it have any heavy influences from the northern arts, such as Zhaquan?