I just see the Sup Ji Kau Dah Kuen from Master Doc Fai Wong and is it totally different to our Hung Sing Sup Ji Kau Dah Kuen. Why???
The DFW and Lee Koon Hung versions are very different.
No right or wrong. Just different lineages.
exactly…they look different. my school also teaches lee koon hung choy lee fut and now we are starting to learn from master chan yong fa also. and when he did some of the sets such as sui mui fa kuen or sup ji kau da kuen…they looked so different from the way lee koon hung taught us. but it still has the same purpose, its jus been interpreted differently by different teachers
Hiram and Wah
Thanks for you reply, I know what you talking about the different lineage and the way your teacher learned the form and do the form. I have see the form from other Hung Sing brother from Lee Koon Hung are we performing like us some minor change. The form from DFW look great too!! Also the Siu Sup Ji is different too!! I have the same with my Hung Gar brother from the Tang Fong lineage. I going to give my THANKS TO ALL MY HUNG GAR AND CHOY LI FUT BROTHER IN THE WORLD, NO MATTER WHAT LINEAGE ARE, THEY ARE DO A GREAT JOB!!
I’ve never seen the DFW Sup Ji Kau Dah Kuen. From what I’ve heard DFW takes an almost Taiji-like approach to CLF. That could explain the big differences. I think that as long as the form follows good body mechanics and the Sifu can show a good application for the move it is probably OK. Forms are always open to interpretation…my sifu, a student of LKH, does the forms slightly differently.
Fu-Pow
“If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you’d better train every part of your body” - Bruce Lee
Fu Pow
Your Sifu MHF does the forms like he learned, I don’t know if he change his Siu Mui Fah Kuen the old one they do, uppercut, tree ta na, chi na, front kick or side kick and cross stance to the left with a ta na and them go to the elboe strike in the new one LKH, they go to the kick and them change to the back with a tana in horse stance and them to the elbow strike, finish with the fu jow to the groing.Did he change this part to the new one??? We did the old version.
Ray-
I’m not familiar with the names of the moves…
ta na?
chi na?
I think the part of the form you are talking about goes like this…
uppercut (in right forward bow stance), step back to dragon stance and clear the arm, step forward to dragon stance and clear the arm, kick, pow jong (upward palm in bow stance), shift to other bow stance, block down and back, elbow strike, then fu-jow. There are no horse stances in this series of moves.
Fu-Pow
“If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you’d better train every part of your body” - Bruce Lee
To Wah:
How are you associated to the Lee Koon Hung lineage? Who is your sifu and where is your school?
Peace.
In our school, our Sup Ji Kau Da comes from the Lau Bun lineage, although we have sets from 3 lineages…Chung Lem, Lau Bun, and recently from Chen Yong Fa as well. My sifu (Primicias) learned the Lau Bun lineage mostly via Howard Lee, DFW’s si-hing.
The way DFW does his Sup Ji Kau Da is almost exactly the same as ours, but a few variations of moves make it a little bit different. It seems to me (just my personal observation) that DFW is more into his Taiji, because when he does his CLF, it’s done more with a “Taiji-like expression” than “CLF expression.” However, CLF does have relaxed power, or “fa jing” too…I am referring more to the flavor of his performance.
I have never seen Lee Koon Hung’s version of this set, but IMO all CLF is one family and though the outward form may differ to varying degrees between individuals or schools, the ultimate goal is the same.
Jim
CLF does not really have “Fa-Jing” as we issue our power using the hip…internal arts in general do not use the hip to issue their power…that is why I am a little bit confused why DFW does his CLF like Taiji (or vice versa)…Choy Lay Fut uses a relaxed whipping type of motion, but it is just not the same thing as Fa Jing…no disrespect to DFW, I just don’t understand his reasoning…
Fu-Pow
“If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you’d better train every part of your body” - Bruce Lee
Siu Mui Fah Kuen Doy Dar or Chak Kuen
Hello Choy Li Fut brothers! I thinks that the Siu Mui Fah Kuen Doy Dar is it belong to LKH lineage only, I maybe wrong. I asking to a friend from the DFW lineage if they do the Siu Mui Fah Kuen Doy Dar and he say no. Does any one know if they practiced this form??
It is not listed in the forms in the back of his book. He does have a Sup Ji vs. Siu Mui Fa though. It is not Sup Ji Kah Dau though, just Sup Ji.
Fu-Pow
“If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you’d better train every part of your body” - Bruce Lee
fa jing
I am also a bit confused with where people get the idea that Choy Lee Fut uses fa jing. As Fu-Pow says, Choy Lee Fut uses a relaxed whipping type of motion.
Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.
Fu Pow, in taijiquan all movement comes through the waist. Indeed, mechanically Taijiquan is similar to most longarm systems, which is why it complements other systems so well.
“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu
Brother Wah
As I know your are from Sifu Seng Au lineage, in 1999 your Sifu was in Puerto Rico and he was the judge in the ring for my Sifu in the form competition, also we come from the same Sifu Au’s lineage.
To CLFNole :
My koon is associated to LKH through Bucksam Kong’s Siu Lum Pai. My sifu, as Brother Ray has stated is Sifu Au, a student of Bucksam Kong and that is how we learnt CLF from LKH. But now we are taking out CLF to another step and learning it from GM Chan Yong Fa, the Jerng Mun or keeper of CLF. So we are learning the original forms too…and man it is different they way its moves are executed and performed. My sihings and sifus that went to Poland last year to the seminar with GM Chan said that when he did Sui Mui Fa Kuen…it wuz very different from the one that we know. 
As I was taught, in Chinese martial arts, there are different categories of jing (or ging). In some systems it is often expressed in a harder manner, and in others it is softer. It involves issuing power with the entire body, for example, as in a simple straight punch, the body is relaxed, and the power begins from the foot, through the knees, hips, waist, back, through the arm to the fist. Of course, this could be expressed differently in CLF’s shorter-hand combinations. One does NOT have to be practicing only Hsing-I, Taiji, or Baji in order to fa jing, although not everybody will call it that.
On moves such as Sow Choy, pow jong, kup choy, etc., there is a difference because they are circular follow-through strikes. But CLF also has many straight and angular strikes, and short strikes that require one to issue whole-body generation. The flavor of this power generation, and the emphasis, vary from school to school. But it is still the sudden, explosive use of power, fa jing (as opposed to fa li, which would mean to emphasize mostly on outer muscular force).
By the way, our school is in NO way connected to DFW, and as I mentioned earlier, our flavor and emphasis is very different from his.
Jim
Wah & Jimbo
Brother Wah do you learned the Chan Yong Fa Siu Mui Fah version or you only know is it different from our Siu Mui Fah Kuen??? Do you see the form??
Jimbo
In our school, our Sup Ji Kau Da comes from the Lau Bun lineage, although we have sets from 3 lineages…Chung Lem, Lau Bun, and recently from Chen Yong Fa as well. My sifu (Primicias) learned the Lau Bun lineage mostly via Howard Lee, DFW’s si-hing.
The way DFW does his Sup Ji Kau Da is almost exactly the same as ours, but a few variations of moves make it a little bit different.
By the way, our school is in NO way connected to DFW, and as I mentioned earlier, our flavor and emphasis is very different from his.
Your Sup Ji Kau Dah and the DFW you said is almost the same, your Sifu learned from the same lineage, Master Lau Bun, but do you see the Master Chan Yong Fa or do you practiced the Master Chan Yong Fa Sup Ji Kau Dah Kuen?? If you practiced the Chan Yong Fa Sup Ji Kau Dah, how they look, more explosive in the way that you have to performing the set???
Ray:
Unfortunately, I have not yet seen Chan Yong Fa’s version of Sup Ji Kau Da. The lineage with the main influence in our school is that of Chung Lem (a.k.a., John Lem), and second, Lau Bun via Howard Lee, plus some from Chan Yong Fa. The Chan Yong Fa version of Ng Ying Kuen (5 Animal form) that we learned is a CLF set and completely different in every way from DFW’s, however. In fact, the only Sup Ji Kau Da I’ve seen is from Lau Bun’s…I am curious to see them all.
Jim
To Wah:
Actually I have seen some of Kong Buck Sam’s students CLF on hungkuen.net and to tell you the truth it is a bit different from the way I learned from Lee Koon Hung and continue to learn under his brother Li Siu Hung.
The KBS style is a bit more like hung gar, which is likely due to the fact that he would come Hong Kong from Hawaii, learn from Sifu and then return. He didn’t follow sifu for a long time like the students at the Hong Kong school so I don’t think he really picked up the CLF style to the degree of a person that only practices CLF.
He also followed Lee Koon Hung early in sifu’s teaching career and over time sifu’s CLF evolved into what many people see and teach today.
Peace.