Ok, in light of the other section of this forum, i wanted to post some pictures of what we do. right now i don’t have any film available, but the photo’s will do.
in the 4 photos my sifu is showing how to use the dragon against someone trying to grab you around the waist.
i look forward to any videos and photo’s all are invited to post in regards to the topic.
hope you like.
hsk
choy lay fut dragon techniques
Hsk thats a very good way to use dragon techniques, you can also use that same technique grab kicks and punches.. Good bone braking technique.
Havick
Hey sihing didn’t you guys learn stuff similar to that in 5 Animal Form?
Welcome by the way.
thanks, havic,
is mak hin fai your sifu?
if so he and my sifu know each other.
thanks for your comments, and yeah we would do that just as you said.
same thing only smaller circle can be done when someone is trying to stab you.
again.
thanks.
can you guys see the pictures?
it usually shows how many times a photo has been viewed.
So if an MMA guy shoots in on me I can break his neck???
But I can’t do that in the ring, so it must not be a valid technique:rolleyes:
Umm. . . . . . . . . thanks for that completely useless piece of info.
Why don’t you step into the cage or ring and tell us how it goes?
Exactly my ****ING point.
I don’t think sarcasm reads well for some reason. 
Umm. . . . . . . . . thanks for that completely useless piece of info.
Why don’t you step into the cage or ring and tell us how it goes?
Exactly my ****ING point
I’m sorry did I miss something where I insulted a CLF player???
Last time I checked I was a CLF player!!!
Someone has their panties in quite a bunch…
Maybe wearing a thong??!?!?:eek:
I had the rolley eyes thing…I think the Traditionalists are a little on edge recently…
Nope our Ng Ying doesn’t really have much in the way of dragon. I have a book on the Lung Ying form it has this technique which is called something like “Dragon Grabs the Pearl” or something. I wasn’t sure of the application but I figured it was something like this where you grab the head. Thanks for posting that Frank.
I think he’s just pointing out that this is a technique which could not be used in the ring because it’s main application is to break the neck.
Which points to the fact wu3 shu4/ mou4 seut literally means military art (like to be used in war to kill/maim people) and not a sport.
There’s a lot to be learned from sport but a lot of the content of wu3 shu4/mou4 seut was never intended for sport.
Absolutely agreed. Which is why I’ve been reading much on the philosophy of Miyamoto Musashi and his WAY of the sword (which can be transferred to the Fist as easily) – that the TRUE AIM of OUR CMA, that is CLF, is to maim and destroy the opponent. That is what I try to get across. But I’m with you 100%, I believe that the CURRENT MMA CONTEXT is the best ****ing training tool WE HAVE. What better way to pressure test our Fist than have someone trying to submit you, and you know little in the ways of submission wrestling?
How will use your CLF then? How will you fight a wrestler? How will you fight a boxer, Thai boxer, etc? You will be FORCED to change and adapt; flow and evolve. I STRONGLY BELIEVE this is GOOD for CLF, as it will FORCE you to adapt and use your CLF based on situational levels, and the levels of necessity.
What I am saying in regards to Green Clouds comment is the sarcastic implication that MMA, NHB etc is somehow “so limiting” to his arsenal of techniques that he can’t use the “d34dly neck break”. . . . . . . .
I’m sorry did I miss something where I insulted a CLF player???
Last time I checked I was a CLF player!!!
Someone has their panties in quite a bunch…
Maybe wearing a thong??!?!?
I am a CLF player to the core buddy. I train the so-called “lethal techniques” just as you do. But I am ****ING DISGUSTED by the way so many traditionalists are presenting themselves (no one here in particular, as this forum has some actually sane people) as in the “my style” or “my technique” is “too d34dly for the ring/cage” and “therefore I will lose.”
This sort of mentality is a hindrance to the growth of CMA, does not prove ****, and leads to just bad practice overall IMHO. It is the FACT that not every situation will be at your advantage. You might get attacked after getting smacked in the head in a bar; you might get the jump on you by a gang at night.
You’ll be disadvantaged. You might not have the time to pull some “deadly neck break.” You might have a knife sticking in on arm, making it useless. What will you do then? Your “deadly techniques” are nullified, so oh no, we’re SCREWED!!!
If our Art was to kill. . . .destroy. . . . . you’d think that the technique would also work perfectly well within a sport context, a “regimented” contex. . . . . . . paradigms that have rules & regulations, but to the point where pull a “deadly technique” isn’t really an issue at hand.
Let’s say the DO allow that neck crank of yours. OK, no problem. MMA fighter shoots. You try to defend. Do you sprawl or what? I have no clue.
Most likely, he takes you down. MMA fighter preceeds to escape your guard (that’s if you have one) and proceeds to gain side control or mount. If you have zero ground game, it’s pretty much a mount like taking candy from a baby.
MMA fighter mounts. MMA fighter preceeds to pin your arms down, making them useless. MMA fighter then proceeds to A) Ground n Pound your face with a flurry of elbows and fists, or B) submit you. Mostly like a combination.
You’d think I was a MMA fanatic and hated TCMA, or CLF. Not the case at all. But thinking that you have the skillsets to defend against every situation, ESPECIALLY those that TCMA typically NEGLECTS (disagree if you will, but I don’t think CMA really concentrates on sprawling, groundfighting, submissions, GnP, etc). If you can’t play the submission or wrestling game, you will lose.
You used one scenario and one potential defense that I believe was not very realistic. Sorry if I sounded harsh or egotistical; I’m simply extremely aggravated. So again, no personal attacks. Just my opinions, based upon personal experiences.
Again, without offending, Peace.
see how an innocent thread can go sour?:mad:
thanks guys!!! i mean infrazael and GreenCloudCLF you both are clf guys, and its true, if mma doesn’t do it or is not allowed to do it they believe it is not worthy.
but my sifu is the real deal, and if you watch his fu jow on my classmates face it never moves even when he hits the ground. this technique has two purposes, one to break the neck, or two fllip over an unwilling opponent.
anyones head turning that far around will flip over.
fu pow, as havic said, you can catch the foot the top hand grabs the top part of the foot while the bottom twists the heel of the foot snapping the ankle of tossing him over. this has been used alot in san shou with Cung Le.
but please, if we are choy lee fut brothers, regardless of individual opinions we still represent choy lee fut. and if someone who is a CLF disciple i hope he doesn’t turn his back on his system for the glory of MMA. CLF has been around longer is and is the epitimy of what MMA really is.
MMA i believe should be stuff from this and that what works, what doesn’t for the ring. but in life, Choy Lee Fut only the best was extrapulated and then developed into our great system.
i never posted those photo’s for you all to biatch and complain.
ninja please!!!
infrazael,
i will be the first to say you are not choy lee fut to the bone, buddy. if you were you would know that any and all techniques can be used if you train to use it.
i hear you talk and you have traded you CLF in for a pair of boxing gloves.
you are thinking too much and anticpating a very rare occurance. i’ll bet you you probably have never really had to use what ever CLF you claim to have. i’m not apologizing since i never meant this thread to go ugly.
you have obviously lost your CLF heart, don’t be mad at me, re-read your posts.
so when I —me -----frank of the hung sing kwoon----say that the choy lee fut i practice is not for the ring, but for street survival purposes but you keep referring to the ring you sound like you have no confidence to kick arse out in the streets.
somewhere you have lost the love or you think your sifu never taught you much, but to hear you speak i think you have been disappointed with your choy lee fut somewhere. well, i’m not , my sifu is not , my students are not.
why are you?
im reading your post about changing and adapting, that has nothing to do with the system you are learning. look at chuck lidell, he was a student of Mu Duk Kwan and traditional system and he is a champ.
changing and adapting is something you as a fighter need to learn. its not the style. if you rely on the style you will lose. if you take what you think is the best working for you and turn that into something thats fine.
my sifu taught a professional boxer choy lee fut who used a few techniques in that ring to win his fights.
any good martial artsist will realize that the emphasis on ring fighting is totally and completely different that street combat. if you don’t see that ask your sifu why.
im glad i have a sifu that knows his stuff, and has used it in the streets. he passed on that knowledge on to me and me to my students.
stop all the hating and work it out with you clf brothers.
man im on a roll now and need to smoke some good green cali weed.
let me ask some questions…answer truthfully.
1) Are MMA fighter allowed to break an opponents neck during a ufc match?
2) Can MMA fighter use things like the Tiger Claw while in the clinch to gain the advantage?
3) if one is in a bad position in the ring and the only way he knows how to escape is dirty tricks, are those allowed (like eye gouges, flesh ripping _maiming)?
4) Has a referee just stood by watching the mayhem while a MMA fighter continues to stomp an unconscious person?
Well, it does in the streets and sometimes much worse.
oh,
in the streets as a fighter, i feel since i train my CLF for survival reasons only i feel i have more material to work with than if i was training strictly for ring fighting.
I never said rings fights were useless. not at all. it has its place in the world of martial arts. the uniqueness of each type is what makes martial arts so great.
I haven’t lost anything. I gain more experience from cross training; I learn how to apply what I was taught under pressure, under pressure from different types of attacks that weren’t covered before; I learn different skill sets.
I never said MMA replaces CLF. I use and learn it as a complimentary system – mostly for the Thai Boxing and the Submissions.
As for your street fighting talk, I haven’t forgotten what I’ve been taught. I haven’t forgotten rolling chop choys to the bottom of the throat, I haven’t forgotten sau and kup choys to the ears, or fu jows to the face. Hell, I constantly practice those moves on the heavy bag.
But if you think I’m somehow “betraying” CLF. . . . . . . you are entitled to do that. I will respectfully and maturely reply that I humbly disagree with your assessment, and that my personal MA training is to become as efficient as possible, with the most resistance possible.
I haven’t forgotten the mentality of CLF. I do realize, much like Fu-Pow, that the “street” and the “ring” are indeed two different games altogether. I never stated that MMA was even intended for the street. I’m saying that THOSE (again, not you Frank, since you obviously pressure test your Art and Fist) OTHER PEOPLE in the CMA community who constantly spout the “too deadly” phrase is doing CMA a disfavor. . . . . . .
Like you said, this is my personal growth. Like it or not, agree or not, it is still my growth.
But I would also humbly ask you to stop antagonizing me as committing some sort of “treason” against CLF. . . . . . . . . . . if you know me you should know that my CLF obsession is what keeps me going. It’s for CLF that I started MMA. It’s all to improve my CLF. I didn’t “drop” CLF for a pair of boxing gloves my friend. Boxing is not being detrimental; it’s teaching me some different methods of punching that are DIFFERENT than CLF punching, adding to my arsenal. Same with Thai Boxing and Submissions. They are extrea WEAPONS that I can, and will seek to utilize in a situation.
My ultimate goal is for the “street.” The Ring/Cage is merely the best testing tool IMO for what we have learned.
And Frank, sorry about this. I was merely angry at the fact that Green Cloud seemed to be spouting the typical “we are too deadly” rhetoric. . . . . . . whether this is TRUE OR NOT, it’s what I PERCIEVED.
If I offended Frank, I apologize.
If I offended Green Cloud, I apologize.
If I offended anyone else, and they somehow think me of being “traitor” then I humbly apologize. I’m sorry I have given the impression of that, but I will not change my training methods, which seek to blend the old and new.
Peace to y’all CLFers out there.
Infrazael
Why doesn’t everybody just take a deep breath and chill the fizuck out.
:o
Infrazreal I hear what you’re saying. I mean, I’m the one that’s been encouraging people to spar at Sifu’s.
However, realize how ridiculous the extreme opposite side of the “too deadly” argument sounds…ie..“if you don’t compete in MMA/NHB/Full Contact then you don’t know how to fight.”
The truth is that there all kinds of shades of gray here…it’s not black and white.
People incorporate contact on all kinds of levels into their training. There are people that have lots of real life street experience but not a lot of ring experience. There are people that by virtue of there natural strength, dispostion and size are good fighters with little ring experience. There are contact drills that build speed and reaction time that aren’t full contact free sparring.
Bottom line is that the more experience you get with an opponent in front of you (even willing) the better you’re going to get…but I reject the notion that you need to be a “professional full contact fighter” in order to know how to handle yourself.
Just remember this, every fighter has an off day, even the best. So no matter which way you train there are no guarantees…for anyone.
If you approach your training with this attitude in mind then the rest will take care of itself. Think of it as “agnostic,” (as in a-gnostic or “not knowing”) kung fu training. It’s also known as approaching training with an empty cup.
FP
That’s actually one of the first techniques in our form Siu Ching Kuen