Chinese Martial Arts Business

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Martial arts business

Hey..you guys are off on a totally different tangent. This thread is supposed to be for MA school owners, to compare business systems, concepts, curriculum, strategies etc. I think the discussion of what you decide to teach is a good one, but why not create a new thread?

Many CMA teachers have an idea in their mind of what they want their students to become. The challenge is, not every student wants to become what the teacher wants. What I mean is; Not everyone wishes to learn to become the ulitmate fighter. In fact, there are a lot of people who like to learn martial arts, but have no interest in getting hurt or fighting at all. That is a reality. If you are a teacher who only wants to train people to fight, you will only gather a small percent of the MA poplulation.

Here is an example. I teach hundreds of new students each year. Some stay, some leave. Out of the hundreds, dozens will go on to be good students. A few of those will have the ability to really defend themselves. The challenge is; not everyone want to put the time and effort into becoming a ‘complete’ martial artist.

Is that a bad thing? Hmm. Let’s see. I like the teaching people KF. I like the fact that every once in awhile, I find a really capable student. The more people I meet, the more capable students I seem to develop. Is everyone going to be a MA expert? Hell no. Some people don’t have it and will never have it them. I’m okay with that. My training makes people feel better about themselves, they get in better shape and they are doing what they love. Hey, I wouldn’t have so many students if everyone thought the training sucked. What is a good barometer for having a successful school. Hey, making a lot of $$ is great. Having a lot of students is great too. Going to sleep at night, proud of the job you did that day at work (class) and seeing how excited and pleased with your training your students are, that’s a pretty good measure.

And someone mentioned before about agreements and contracts, length of time, etc. Listen up. Students have the choice to enroll in a school or not. If they don’t like the terms of the membership, they shouldn’t sign up. Every school uses a different method. 6 months, 1 years, 3 years, whatever. If a school is scamming people are pressuring them into enrolling for a long time, then they are unethical.

Don’t get mad at the schools for having memberships that are 24/36 months long. If you don’t like that, don’t have long agreements. It’s up to you. My comment about ‘enabling your students to quit’ comes from this: Your students have set a goal (or assume they have) and made a committment. Just like I have to make a committement to a landlord, etc. As adults, we have to learn the importance of keeping our promises. If I promise a certain level of committment to a student, I have a written agreement (contract) that guarantees that I will provide that service to that student for a period of time. It’s a two way street.

Someone said that in the ‘old days’ teachers did not have contracts to keep students. Well, that is not true. There were two types of standard contracts. They went like this: I promise to be your teacher, you promise to be my student. Student for a day, student for life. The Chinese culture is a bit different then the Americans. They made a promise and kept it. Their contract is part of their culture. They would discrace themselves by breaking their word. We certainly don’t live by that code here. And two: Students were often required to train with a teacher for a period of time. A teacher might say: I will teach you, but you must train with me for at least two years, that is your committment to me.

The fact is, it’s a matter of preference. We are not going to all agree on everthing, what is why we are here. To share opinions and points of view. If you like agreements, fine. If not, fine too. The questions in this forum are directed towards school owners. If you want to contribute and you’re not a school owner, state your opinion. I like to read posts from everyone. But let’s not lose the focus of what this thread is about.

I have enjoyed the diversity of these posts so far.

42

Hey, I’m quoting myself!
Deep Breath- ok…Sifu Parrella,
What is the average price for an introductory program, how long does it last, and how much -on average, is a Black Belt Program?
How do you install this into your present class without the bottom dropping out? Of course, if you started your school like this there would be no problem, but to suddenly tell your senior students that they will have to “upgrade” to get what they’ve been getting all along is suicide. Like I said, I am starting to understand the rotating curriculum-I think. Upgrading to BBC-without it looking like an “Upsell” or Bait and Switch, but being a natural progression in their training, and something they WANT to DO.
As far as the naysayers-If you are giving the student the BEST POSSIBLE product you can. If you are giving ALL the BENEFITS, then even though you are charging more, you are not selling out. You are charging and giving them a Mecedes and Filet Mignon, not ripping them off and giving them a Rambler and a BigMac.

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Sifu Kellerman

Our Basic Program, where all new students start is approx. $727. If you pay for it in full, the program is discounted to $599.

Black Belt Programs, depending on which one, are several thousand dollars. Neither of the Black Belt level training programs we offer guarantee a black belt. Students train for a period of time in Black Belt Classes.

It is obvious from your posts though, that you are doing stuff WAY different than me. If you are satisfied with your current result, continue on your course. If you desire a different result, you will have to change your methods.

Just a few words: “People will not pay more for the same thing.” We don’t use any ‘bait and switch’ or any high pressure sales tactics. My students enroll in different levels of training because they are informed of the curriculum, and they see other students who are a product of that curriculum. They wouldn’t enroll if I were ‘tricking’ them or giving them a bunch of BS. Teach good classes and structure you curriculum in such a way that people build skills and results. You can be a good teacher, but structure your classes in a ‘bad’ way. It’s quite common.

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“Our Basic Program, where all new students start is approx. $727. If you pay for it in full, the program is discounted to $599.”

-how long is the basic program, how many times per week are they allowed to attend?

“Black Belt Programs, depending on which one, are several thousand dollars. Neither of the Black Belt level training programs we offer guarantee a black belt. Students train for a period of time in Black Belt Classes.”

you have different types of Black Belt Programs? Could you elaborate? How are they paid off? What do they “get” by enrolling? What if they choose not to? Or is that not an option?

I KNOW this system works, as pretty much anyone and everyone who is successfull in teaching Martial Arts is doing this. I just need to find out how I can make this work in my enviornment, and implement it without any flak from the present students.
Thanks for all your advice/
TT

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Neat thread…I myself haven’t gotten rich (yet) teaching martial arts, but I have worked at several different schools of varying financial success, so I feel like I do have a good idea of what works and what doesn’t. I’m talking about what goes on on the actual training floor, as I don’t know as much about contracts and other stuff that goes on behind the scenes. I’ve worked with people from like ages 3-50 something, and people with disabilities such as blindness.

Anyway, I think you have to consider why people want to learn the martial arts and then help them gain the benefits that they seek. For kids, they want to have fun and their parents want them to learn discipline, focus, concentration, confidence etc. So it is important that the classes and curriculum be dynamic and fun.

Adult classes should be enjoyable too, but of course you can’t try to teach kids the same way as adults, and vise versa. Adults may be looking for fitness, weight loss, confidence, socializing, self-defense etc. I also recently read that a growing number of parents are signing their kids up for martial arts b/c they are concerned with the US’ growing obesity problem. So fitness is important in kids’ classes too.

Anyway I’ve got a whole bunch of fun class ideas that I can send to anyone that is interested, but do yourself a favor and go right to the source. Get some videos by Tom Callos, Melody Schuman, and/or Dave Kovar. These people are freakin’ geniuses when it comes to making people excited about karate/martial arts classes. And when those people are so excited, how can they leave?

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I am just now learning this! I never really realised the power of this. I was foolishly under the impression that good content will sell itself! But my Sifu is teaching me about the psychology of structuring class, and it is totally shaking my world. For example- I used to end all my classes with at least 15 or more minutes of form practice. I never realized how big of a mistake that was!!

-123

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Can you elaborate on that some? I’d like to hear about it.

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Ok, this is my view on this-
A good analogy would be the way a good DJ works the room, if you notice towards the end of the night, the music is slower,lowering the energy level,moving people out the door. If you make your classes tedious and boring, you are doing the same thing.
Just as in the film industry,“You are only as good as your last film”
Your school is only as good as its last class. You need to make your classes high energy, and always end upbeat. you want them at the nd of class worked to the bone, but PUMPED. You want them walking out of that class sweating and energized, saying, “That was awesome! I feel GREAT!” not looking at the clock waiting for it to end, or students drifting out one by one, “Um, Sifu…I gotta go”
You have to have your warm-ups, stretching all maintaining an enthusiasm, so you don’t have them do jumping jacks, pushups, then sit down on the floor and relax. If you do that, trying to get them on their feet and pumped is an uphill battle. Instead, do a light warm-up,we warm up the upper body with hand strikes, then do a few upper body stretches, then more drills, then waistwork, then light kicking to warm up the legs, then floor stretches, then back up.etc
We do “Power Lines” to energize the class as well-these are kicks on the bags across the floor-lots of movement lots of energy. You can do this with hand techniques as well, or make up pad drills, whatever.
Learn to disguise repetition. If you want your guys to do 100 reverse punches, do ten, then ten high/low punches, then ten frontkick/reverse punch combos, then ten lead hand strike/reverse punch combos, etc keep them moving.
You can break up your class into a pie graph to segment each thing you want to work on, making sure everything is hit. You don’t need to do sam-sing for an hour, you can do it for several minutes, because the students come in 2-3 times a week.
That is my take on it. Sifu Parrella might mean something else entirely, so let’s hear from you guys.
“The rising tide lifts all boats”

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I pay my sifu $5,000 a year because I’m the only student left. Other students have left for MMA which I find to be a dishonerable thing to do.

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Hmmm, what do you thinks that tells you?

Props for supporting your teacher. Try supporting him some more by taking his to some kind of convention for martial arts business. Or get him a book about teaching students so they don’t quit.

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He’s a traditional sifu

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He should get the “Humanitarian of the Year” award for teaching the handicapped.

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How much do you guys pay per square foot for your space? LI must be expensive… Also, how many students do you think a school needs to be viable? How long was it before your fist school was profitable?

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Humanitarian award! HA! That was funny Rick!

$24-$30 per square foot is pretty average in LI. A bit more in Queens and higher still as you get closer to manhattan.

I don’t think you need more than 125 students to have the school owner earn $120,000 plus, per year. If you have more students, obviously, you can earn more. Most schools are charging less than they should (I take that back - most schools are charging EXACTLY what their lessons are worth!) but, with a few improvements, most schools could be charging more, AND change HOW they collect tuition/payments etc.

I opened my first school in 1991. I did earn a salary of about $400+ per week within the first month of business. By the end of the second year, maybe about $500. By the end of 1994, I was earning over $100,000 per year. Fortunately, I had several mentors in the martial arts industry that helped me understand a lot of the ‘do’s and don’t’s’ of the biz. They were a great help.

[INDENT]And for those of you who are ingnorant to the ‘biz’, or think you are selling out because you can actually earn an income teaching good CMA, think again. Martial arts business is not just about professional presentations and sales and marketing. It’s class scheduling, the look of your school, merchandise, programing (what you offer) curriculum (what you teach) identifying the needs and wants of your demographic, and learning how to act like a professional. It’s customer service, being a boss not a buddy, doing bookkeeping and learning how to be a learder to your staff and students, etc. [/INDENT]

I think a new school, with today’s technology, should be able to turn a profit within 90 days. That means, within 45-75 days, a school should be able to recoup the initial investment for opening it up and begin to earn profit. I have opened schools with as little as $7K (my first school) and with as much as $68,000 (same school, five years later, new location). It all depends on how competent the owner is.

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With 125 or so students, what would you say the break down is as far as kids and soccer moms vs. more hard core type students? Is it safe to say that teaching kids is where the bulk of the income comes from?

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I think we run about half kids half adults, for the most part.

I would say that more money is made from adults.

And I think of the adults, about 10-20% are hard core, the other 70% are very serious about training and the other 10% are just finding out about the martial arts and were not athletic.

I hope this helps?

57

Sifu Parella-
Would you recommend for a teacher who is just starting out to teach in a community center and then move to a storefront location once a following was developed, or would you recommend biting the bullet and taking a loan and getting the storefront location right off the bat?

My apologies if you’ve addressed this before.

Thanks,
123

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Teaching at a rec center is a low-risk way to start. Some school owners build a following and then take the leap…

I think going the full-blown route is the best. However, if you don’t have at least a couple of months of training; Sales, Business systems etc., then you shouldn’t invest a bunch of money that you are sure to lose.

This is the major problem here: “I am a martial artist. I love what I do, and I teach a few guys in my garage. I am good at what I do. I think I will take my hobby to the next level and do it as a business. Granted, I don’t know anything about the MA business, but I’m a good teacher and people will come to me.”

This is a sad delusion, isn’t it? The instructor realizes pretty fast that he/she has no idea what they are doing. Some, seek out the help of others who know more. Some still keep plugging away, and make mistakes, learn from them and stay ‘afloat’. Others seem to dismiss the fact that they know nothing about business and blame their failure of the ‘weak’ or ‘non-serious’ people who fail to sign up. The moto of the failed instructor: “I am a traditional instructor and most people aren’t serious about training.” Right…that’s why they are a failure at business.

And by the way, I think you can make $$ teaching many different ways. I know those are who tournament schools, I know forms schools, and I know pure fighting schools. I have successful friends or colleges in all these different areas. It can be done. But they all have certain business systems in common to make their schools successful. No hocus pocus, no smoke and mirrors, just good business practices.

I hope this helps again.

Feel free to PM if you want.

59

Thank you for your responses. Are there any books you would suggest specfic to the MA business/ running a school?

60

Find a mentor! It might not always be easy, but networking is one of the best things you can do! Also, signing up for MAIA, NAMPA and MATA are good resources as well. There are a few consulting companies that are offering services to the public as well. I use Member Solutions as a tuition management company, I think they are the best. They have some consulting services available as well. Bottom line, find someone who is doing what you want to do and ask them if they can teach you. Sound familiar?

Best of luck!