I got the idea from my post on flag bowing in a martial arts school and it got me thinking on what people’s views are on martial art contracts.
Do you see this as a ligit form of business? Pro’s and Con’s?
I did have a very good friend once who got his credit tarnished because of this tactic. I understand you have to put bread on the table but I do not agree with it. There are better methods of billing.
What do you think and or/if how do you run your school?
I personally wouldn’t do it. We charge a yearly membership fee to cover insurance, but there is no contract as such.
Having said that, I don’t see why it is so bad. Gyms do it, so why shouldn’t MA schools? As long as the contracts are legal and reasonable then I don’t see a problem.
I would prefer month to month or ideally, pay-per-lesson. That way you only pay for when you definitely go. No wasted money. You can quit whenever you want. They should make that the law.
Contract is the way to go especially for martial art skools! You have to realize that from a BUSINESS point of view u have to make money!!! Most students hate contracts but they’re not paying for the LEASING of the SPACE, the electricity, water, advertisement, equipment, and maintenance of their training hall! In the beginning, most skools had month by month. LOL. The people never showed up and just stop paying without even calling or informing the owner. There only way of living is a 1 year or 6 months contract. It’s also part of the business nature for most major corp.
I really don’t care about the business aspect.
kung fu cowboy…well BLACK JACK ask from a business aspect.
No contract but we do EFT with 30 notice to cancel. My instructor was going nuts making sure people were paying on time.
Oops, sorry! I thought it was a personal opinion thread.
Contracts
I have no contracts, but I do have a Contract with the Air Force to provide me with space and training stuff in return for a small % of my $$. This allows me to not worry about quantity of students, but only quality! Id much rather pay 10 bucks a month for a website, pass out cards, and teach out of a park, then to have to make the rent every month. I would not want to conflict buisiness with the students training, or compromise the art.
From a student perspective I see the benifits of a month to month thing, but it also allows students to skip classes or months without any financial reporcusion to them. This leads to people coming in and out as they please, whenever the mood suits them. However for the teacher who is paying bills, this could obviously hurt him seriously. Any student should be allowed to at least have a trial period of one-month before being forced to sign a contract.
You must look at it from a buisiness perspective as well, If I had signed on everyone who has ever tried my class to a contract I would have like 40 students right now, maybe 50 or 60! I could then afford to have my own place of buisiness, but I would have to maintain that level of income, if the student really wasnt meant for the MA, they may not come anymore after the first year, so you have to continually allow new people in. I would be raking in the cash, but I wouldnt have found good people, my life would be miserable, and quality training would be sacrificed. Many people that try martial arts think they will become bruce lee overnight, when they realize it takes work and practice, they soon find something more entertaining to do.
Gary
From a student perspective I see the benifits of a month to month thing, but it also allows students to skip classes or months without any financial reporcusion to them. This leads to people coming in and out as they please, whenever the mood suits them.
Comin and going as I please per month is fair.
Ok, pay-per-lesson might be a little much, but month to month SHOULD BE THE LAW. Why the He ll should I be obligated to pay for a year when something might come up, like a decapitation or small bowel obstruction, or a change of heart?
Month to month is MUCH MORE than fair all around.
Originally posted by kungfu cowboy
[B]
Comin and going as I please per month is fair.
Ok, pay-per-lesson might be a little much, but month to month SHOULD BE THE LAW. Why the He ll should I be obligated to pay for a year when something might come up, like a decapitation or small bowel obstruction, or a change of heart?
Month to month is MUCH MORE than fair all around. [/B]
I think there should be flexable way of paying to suit all kind of students. some people like to pay seasonal(3months), per month, 6 month, or a year. If you pay more ahead, maybe there are some disconts in compare to per month. So it is up to the students to figerout what is good for them.
I would even consider a 3 or 6 month contract to be ok. I don’t think there should be a penalty for time though.
…
I agree kung fu cowboy, but I dont have to pay the rent on a school either!
Rogue,
I know a couple o’ blokes who work it that way and I think it is a great method.
I think a choice of contracts would be fair, with a discount option for advance/‘bulk’ buying. Most schools over here charge 8-10000 JPY (85USD/58GBP) a year for the initial insurance etc, plus the same for a monthly ‘come as much as you like’ fee.
This is fine if you have the time and dollar to come regularly: I was going to aiki two or three times a week, and then kungfu twice a week. But now I don’t have either the time or money, so I’m in a battle with my sifu about paying per lesson. He says he won’t have a pay per lesson scheme because people who aren’t serious will come a couple of times, insist on some of the curriculum, and take advantage without giving back to the class: however, he knows I’m not like that. He wants 5000 for one lesson per month or the full 10000 for any more. No way! He’s losing 3000 (which I offered per class up to three a month) and risking losing a good student to the wealth of Japanese schools out there. I’ve asked him about it, but now I’m losing patience (otherwise I wouldn’t be writing on this board about it)! I could understand if it made business sense, but I’m sure he doesn’t pay too much for renting the kwoon… Whatever.
Anyway: if I were running a school, I would offer a three month trial contract (to impose on the student that it’s gonna be a long process) at a discount. Then I would offer six month to one year renewals, with discounts, plus the option of a higher rate single lesson fee. Even then, this would not be too restrictive as it would penalise shift workers etc. This should work for the school and the students, without ‘compromising the art’.
yes, it is necessary to have an oath a waiver and a contract for scheduled payments from the students. Trust me on this. The greater majority of students are always late with fees and many a time with the lamest excuses.
A contract helps them understand commitment. This is how it is when you want to rent an apartment you apy your rent at the beginning of the month, not the end yes? This is how it is with your dentist, your doctor and every other area of your life.
Pay your darn fees you slackers!
Kung Fu Cowboy, all about me me me, you sould be in opera.
There should be no extra fees associated with anything , but the person who signs the contract to lease the school shouldn’t get stiffed because his students won’t pay their fees on time.
It is also irritating to the sihings in your school who are forced to badger you as part of their commitment to the school.
The only one who looks bad is YOU, the one who FAILS to keep his end of the bargain with his teacher.
Try to go to a gym without a contract for fee payment, try to get in a continuing education class or a regular class in any area or field of study.
Why do people think they deserve to get the time and effort of someone else for nothing? Ridiculous!
When your “contract” is done, you can walk or stay.
That’s my rant, do your fair share.
peace
Kind of…
if you’re paying per lesson, you should not expect to get the same quality of tuition as those who put in the hours week in week out. But Kung Lek, nobody’s suggesting getting it for nothing… and as for the people who look bad because they’re not doing the work, look at it this way: they are pocket money, and if they’re not gonna bother, the teacher should feel free to get them doing chain punches for the first six months of class! That’s their problem! They will still only be doing the same as anyone else who puts in the time in the first three weeks, and then they’re only ripping themselves off.
I have never experienced a Kwoon or Dojo that used contracts or similar.
Most of them asked for monthly or bi-monthly payments.
When we joined we signed a waiver with the school rules and when and how we need to pay for our lessons.
Simple method.
Sign-up fee + 2 months lessons = 1st payment.
After that we were never asked to buy more than weapons/style specific gear and maybe a few optional study aids.
Examination fees and Seminar fees are paid about 2~3 weeks in advance of the event.
Monthly fees are paid in an enevlope that is marked per person and has 12 blocks marked for payment dates.
These envelopes double as the receipt of payment.
This envelopes are at the schools entrance and you simply grab yours, insert money and hand over to Sifu/Sensei.
Other expenses are paid directly to the Sifu in exchange for goods that we either wanted or were required to buy, we were always forewarned about upcoming expenses.
This has held true for a few styles and schools that I have attended.Personally, I don’t think that a Student who can’t/won’t pay on time for whatever reason shows dedication to the Kwoon and his Sifu/Style.
If extra-ordinary circumstances prevent the student from paying he should discuss it in advance with his Sifu or school head.
Peace.
Way to Go, Kung Lek! I have to agree with you. My landlord is not in the slightest bit interested in whys or wherefores,neither is the guy who insures us if Cowboy stubbs his toe in class, or the power authority. We offer a class, or even a free week (what’s another person on the floor going to cost?) then they make a commitment. The contract can be cancelled-if they don’t want to be there, we really don’t want them here. They will talk **** in the lockerrooms, and that can spread like a cancer in your school. Also, if it turns out that they were on their best behaviour during the interview but actually have the wrong attitude, I don’t want to be legally bound to them either. But-we don’t nickle and dime either. Meaning that if they don’t come they still pay. Like at Gold’s Gym-you paid for a year membershhip-it’s your responsibility to get there and train, nobody’s going to hold your hand. If you make payments on your car, do you tell the finance company, “I didn’t drive it this week, do I still have to pay?”
We look only for serious, dedicated students, and we offer quite alot for what they pay for. They can train everyday, twice a day, up to ten classes a week, for the same price, no charge for extra classes. There is one catch, however. We expect them to train at least two to three times per week. They can come more, but if they can’t make it at least twice a week, we will not accept them as students., and we’ve asked others to leave who weren’t working hard, or coming in often enough.
“perfection is our goal-excellence will be tolerated”
kung lek wrote:
Kung Fu Cowboy, all about me me me, you sould be in opera
Not true, not true! Any of my hypothetical situations would of course apply to the general population of students, not just myself in particular.
Anyway, I just stated what I would find to be the ideal situation, which is paying for services as you receive them, and then what I would consider to be fair to all concerned if the contract thing is a must have.