Bruce Lee

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Did any one see the showing of the Pierre Berton interview with Bruce Lee last night on channel 5?
I was always under the impression that Bruce Lee was meant to be an intelligent man??? Well I suppose I was kinda proved wrong.

I thought his comments about Tai Chi actually proved something very substantial toi the whole Tai Chi community in general…namely that Bruce knew nothing about it mainly. I know that it was the first style of martial art he was introduced to, but he didn’t boither sticking with it much, and his explanation of basic Chinese philosophy was quite hammy and dramatical but with precious little content.

I’m so glad I got to see how mediocre he was.

2

There was a lot BL didn’t know, about a lot of arts, even some of the arts he studied. He was an actor who studied martial arts in my view.

And most of his wise sayings are all regurgitated eastern philosophy, it’s just at that time westerners hadn’t heard a whole lot of it.

3

Nah! i taped it and was going to watch it tonight.
Does he really come across as dumb?

4

it sounds like you people are dumb :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously… maybe you should take some of what he says to heart.

5

truewrestler, it’s not what he is saying is bad or not something we shouldn’t take to heart,it’s just that I am getting pretty sick of hearing about the great bruce lee. It’s mostly myth and legend now and the guy hasn’t been dead 30 years yet. I enjoy a good BL movie like anyone else, and he had some good ideas here and there but for the most part I think he was still young and still had a lot to learn. The other issue was his ego, something a good martial artist shouldn’t allow to get in the way. His just about drove his life.

6

Like i said in my first post .
I HAVE NOT SEEN THE INTERVIEW
Therefore i cannot form an opinion on it.I was just asking someone who had seen it how BL comes across.

7

Repulsive Monkey,

Will you be sure to PM me if you ever post anything that isn’t p-ssing and moaning?

I’m no great lover of Bruce Lee myself. But good grief, mate. What’s the point of this?!

Stuart B.

8

red5angel, You have good points but I feel strongly that what he was advocating wasn’t realized until people took a look at the Ultimate Fighting Championship and realized there is more to martial arts than one style or one way of doing things… that no one style was complete.

You know the movie Game of Death, which he didn’t complete? In the final fight, against Kareem, he finished the fight on the ground with a side choke…although that was cut out by whoever pieced the film together after his death. He tried to use his movies to present his philosophies to the world…whether it was obvious like beating a big guy on the ground with a choke/submission or as subtle as each level of the building being a different level of martial arts…the top being styleless.

Anways… something I’ve never understood is how some people take JKD as Bruce praticed it around the time of his death as a style in itself even though years from his death, and especially today, it would have been much different.

9

Apoweyn

The whole gripe was a ironic response to the earlier what there isn’t a Bruce Lee thread today. However there was inside it a bit of a genuine gripe. Im not all doom and gloom you know, quite the opposite.

By the way I do think in the interview his means of self expression did go to the limits of exposing who big his ego was too.

I just felt that what he was saying showed him up to be more of an actor than a martial artist to be honest. He seemed to make loads og generalisations, even though underneath it I’m plenty sure that he believed in what he was doing.

Plus he kept on saying “Man” and “Hey Baby” too much too. What a beatnick!!!

10

Bet he’d kick your ass :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Re: Apoweyn

Repulsive Monkey,

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
[B]The whole gripe was a ironic response to the earlier what there isn’t a Bruce Lee thread today. However there was inside it a bit of a genuine gripe. Im not all doom and gloom you know, quite the opposite.

By the way I do think in the interview his means of self expression did go to the limits of exposing who big his ego was too.

I just felt that what he was saying showed him up to be more of an actor than a martial artist to be honest. He seemed to make loads og generalisations, even though underneath it I’m plenty sure that he believed in what he was doing.

Plus he kept on saying “Man” and “Hey Baby” too much too. What a beatnick!!! [/B]

This I can agree with wholeheartedly. I’ve long found Bruce Lee’s manner a bit irritating. He’s very overstated. And that manner bothers me.

But if your complaint is that he gets overidealized, don’t make the opposite mistake.

I was always under the impression that Bruce Lee was meant to be an intelligent man??? Well I suppose I was kinda proved wrong.

I have no doubt he was intelligent. The fact that c0ckiness and absolutism annoy me are comments on presentation. Not attributes.

I think you’re making a very valid point. But your first post was made with a lot of the same sort of know-it-all attitude that you’re actually complaining about.

He was a guy. Some things about this guy, I admire. Other things annoy me. And that’s life.

Stuart B.

12

rp

:rolleyes:

Your such a fool sometimes.

Take your classics to heart and keep your mouth shut.

:eek:

13

I think the down hill slide came when he got his a$$ handed to him by Wong Jack Man.

14

“I think the down hill slide came when he got his a$$ handed to him by Wong Jack Man.”

I thought he won but wanted to end it more quickly than he did… please explain

15

BL and mostly Linda Lee claimed he won. Bruce mentioned in passing that he felt he couldn’t end the fight quick enough cough not enough training cough.

However, accroding to bruce and Linda not only was WJM cowering before Bruce but begging him to stop and generally making an ass of himself which pretty much goes against he character of the guy as attested to by many people who knew him at the time.
What I find even more ironic is that this fight that BL won so utterly, was also the one event that basically altetered his whole martial paradigm?!
My take, and all theory mind you, is that Bruce Lee lost that fight. WJM states that he was getting extremely frustrated because he couldn’t get to WJM to do enuogh damage. That sounds aceptabel to me because bruce up until that time hadn’t had as much fighting experience as WJM and hadn’t even finished studying wing chun. He was missing some key components at that time. On top of that BL’s ego was big, no one denies that, although he could be a nice guy, even he has admitted his temper is really bad, which goes along more with what WJM has to say then BL.
So , he goes to fight WJM, thinking it’s going to be an easy fight since WJM is a little older and Bruce’s ego has talked him into this. WJM, who has much more training and in my own opinion, better character, beats him,not brutally since he thought it was supposed to be a freindly match in the first place. He frsutrates BL’s attempts to hhurt him. BL doesn’t have the skill level at this time to compete, he is young and strong but WJM isn’t that much older and he apparently has much more skill then BL has come across before. BL cracks, his ego and his anger come to a head and he loses it and ends up actually making an ass of himself.
He comes out beaten, and frustrated. He can’t finish the WIng Chun system under yip man so he is frustrated about that. He determines that the “classical” mess is a mess because he can’t seem to use it. My theory again is that his ego was big enough to turn people off from training him back then.
So instead of learning something from his experience he decides he doesn’t want to play by anyones rules anymore, it hasn’t done him any good and he wants to start kicking ass now, not later. So is planted the seeds of JKD and June Fan.

16

Wow red5angel, I take it COMPLETELY differently. I always thought that the fight between Bruce and Wong Jack Man was a fvcking mess but that Bruce came out on top.

I compare it to the early Ultimate Fighting Championships where you had guys with blackbelts and up to dozens of years in martial arts look completely incompetent and wild because they had just trained in traditional ways without actually ever fighting…as opposed to maybe a boxer, kickboxer, grappler, wrestler etc who compete all out in their respective sports/styles.

This may have been the time he became interested in combat sports as a tool to get that timing and experience in fighting.

17

Quick quick!!! Check the size of Bruce Lee’s d1ck! Is it bigger than mine??? :mad: :mad: That fukin bast@rd!! :mad:

:rolleyes:
You people need help.

Seriously…

Ryu

18

Interesting article on the fight

http://www.kungfu.net/brucelee.html

19

Well according to all involved both men, but especially WJM had plenty of fighting experience. I think BL’s interest in combatitive sports probably was an extension of his interest in the martial arts in general. He wanted to make the ultimate “style”.

It’s just too many things for me point to BL getting beat. His reaction was extreme to a fight he “won” no matter how long it took him to win it. He claims up until that time that he fought many rooftop battles in hong kong but it has been disclosed that for the most part he just watched the majority of those rooftop fights. My guess is he probably fought in a few and won atleast the majority of them, or hadn’t lost at all, and so expected to be unbeatable. Then the unthinkable happens, he gets beat. Couldn’t him, he is the best fighter he knows. Has to be the system or the way of training.

20

ok, I am bored again, so I will put blood i the water

I think most of what you guys said about BL is correct. Arrogence, lack of knowledge in alot of MA styles, c0ckiness, ripping off old texts etc etc.
To be honest, BL was a main reason why I started MA. Ironically, he is now someone I constantly remind myself to not become.

Anyway, now you know my private ( shhhh, don’t tell anyone ) thoughts about BL let me say something that my stir the pot a little

As much faults as BL has, lets not forget that he has made more contribution to the promotion of CMA as well as Chinese pride than anyone in his days. CMA was barely known back then. When people talk about “Kung Fu”, people may think it is some kind of exotic drink in some alien tropical island. The name KF wasn’t even registered in people’s mind. But BL was able change that completely.

Before BL, chinese were seen as those short, line-eye, two long whiskers cowards. The chinese community living in the western worlds suffered a great deal of sterotyping ( ok, so every non-white were, but lets stick to chinese for now ) But after BL, the concept of what a “Chinese” is changed dramatically in the western world. Having a more… bruce lee-like image :confused:. It was then that alot of chinese children were able to stand up and say “I am Chinese” with pride. Many people who live in BL’s time will say that the smashing of that “no chinese or dogs allowed” sign in fist of fury was a very symbolic event to alot of asian countries. Not only asians, but alot of places around the world where people were ashamed of their own identities because of their lack of strength in comparison to their neigbours.

thirdly, look at the people he inspired ? Look at the generations of MA stars that came after him ? What they were able to achieve. Sure, the final winners is hollywood. but hey, we, the audience wins too.

Now, we must ask ourselves this. If it wasn’t for BL’s character flaws, was all this possible ? A common CMAist would be less willing to flaunt their skill and achievements. Always being able to keep their ego in checked. But really, how many of these people really were able to change the world for the chinese people as BL has ?