Hi all
Thought i start a thread on Body Shots
Phil mentioned a few options he employs in regard to them on another thread but i thought id ask everyone else thoughts
I find sparring (both MT & Boxing) that it can be hard to get of the WC punch as a body shot on occasion.
Personally, i feel a bit open at times in comparison to when i use boxing techniques, in regards to body shots, and i feel this is due to the static head height of WC.
Thoughts?
GlennR
[QUOTE=GlennR;1076022]Hi all
Thought i start a thread on Body Shots
Phil mentioned a few options he employs in regard to them on another thread but i thought id ask everyone else thoughts
I find sparring (both MT & Boxing) that it can be hard to get of the WC punch as a body shot on occasion.
Personally, i feel a bit open at times in comparison to when i use boxing techniques, in regards to body shots, and i feel this is due to the static head height of WC.
Thoughts?
GlennR[/QUOTE]
Dont have static head hights then. its not a natural law
[QUOTE=jesper;1076040]Dont have static head hights then. its not a natural law[/QUOTE]
Well i agree with that… but it challenges the satus quo of most WC practiotioners ive seen
Wing chun has lots of body shots- with power- if properly trained.
Think of the work on the dummy at levels below the two top dummy hands.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1076097]Wing chun has lots of body shots- with power- if properly trained.
Think of the work on the dummy at levels below the two top dummy hands.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Sure, i get that Joy… been doing WC a little while
But my comment is that when i see WC people sparring non-WC people they basically head hunt which, as the boxer-WC video showed, becomes extremely predictable.
So my ongoing question would be… how do we make ourselves less predictable
GlennR
I think that part of the problem is when we “spar” a boxer you are trying to modify wing chun to fulfill a purpose that it was not designed for.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1076108]I think that part of the problem is when we “spar” a boxer you are trying to modify wing chun to fulfill a purpose that it was not designed for.[/QUOTE]
Spot on… so how do we ovecome that?
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1076108]I think that part of the problem is when we “spar” a boxer you are trying to modify wing chun to fulfill a purpose that it was not designed for.[/QUOTE]
What “modifications” are you referring to and what “purpose” was VT “not designed for”?
[QUOTE=YungChun;1076114]What modifications are you referring to and what purpose was VT not designed for?[/QUOTE]
Actually i just re read his comment and am not too sure what he’s getting at?
If you play by the boxer’s rules, many of the weapons of wing chun are left out. Elbows, kicks, open hand strikes, etc. . If gloves are worn, it creates other issues. In addition, often the wing chun guys takes on a boxing mentality of "going rounds rather than finishing on the first engagement. I know I am generalizing but it is what I have observed.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1076099]Sure, i get that Joy… been doing WC a little while
But my comment is that when i see WC people sparring non-WC people they basically head hunt which, as the boxer-WC video showed, becomes extremely predictable.
So my ongoing question would be… how do we make ourselves less predictable
IMO that is a wing chun mind set question…being ready to hit the closest point . Good chi sao and gor sao -not just head hunting chi sao-trains one for that.
Re another post (the next one?) on this thread- with good training with wing chun motions- one can adapt in using gloves if the occasion calls for it…using the wing chun engine and applications.It takes training and practice.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1076134]If you play by the boxer’s rules, many of the weapons of wing chun are left out. Elbows, kicks, open hand strikes, etc. . If gloves are worn, it creates other issues. In addition, often the wing chun guys takes on a boxing mentality of "going rounds rather than finishing on the first engagement. I know I am generalizing but it is what I have observed.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post.
Essentially, we are creating the problem.
I think that in a real life self defence application head shots are fine because instead of punching just use a bill jee strike to the eyes , its easiy to hit. In sparing practise body shots because they canbe a little harder to pull off even with 4 ounce gloves, using a wing chun punch
I think that one should be hitting the targets that are open, regardless of whether it’s the head or the body. And the point the OP made about wing chun head positioning and stance being predictable and not conducive to throwing body shots also seems right. If a hook or an uppercut shot is available to the body, why not throw it, even if it doesn’t exactly look like typical wing chun? Maybe the basic wing chun head and body positioning is a bit rigid and too straight up?
[QUOTE=Niersun;1076150]Excellent post.
Essentially, we are creating the problem.[/QUOTE]
Agreed!
ignore this < it wants more than 10 letters>
Hey Glenn!
I find sparring (both MT & Boxing) that it can be hard to get of the WC punch as a body shot on occasion.
—Why is that? Are you using the “uppercut” from the Chum Kiu form? Its great for body shots. Are you using the straight low punch derived from the “teut sau” motions of the Siu Lim Tao form? Also good for body shots. Are you really close when you throw them?
Personally, i feel a bit open at times in comparison to when i use boxing techniques, in regards to body shots, and i feel this is due to the static head height of WC.
—Why would the head height have anything to do with being open to body shots? If you are bending over with your chin forward are you any less open to body shots? You just have to keep your arms/elbows in a little tighter for coverage if you think body shots are coming. Then as soon as one hits on your arm as it covers, you spring off sharply with a straight punch to his face.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1076134]If you play by the boxer’s rules, many of the weapons of wing chun are left out. Elbows, kicks, open hand strikes, etc. . If gloves are worn, it creates other issues. In addition, often the wing chun guys takes on a boxing mentality of "going rounds rather than finishing on the first engagement. I know I am generalizing but it is what I have observed.[/QUOTE]
Some fair pints thee JS, but when im sparring MT i using all of the waepons youyve mentioned.
I dont go with you “round” idea though. Sure WC is supposed to close down the other guy quick but sparring is learning and trying things when other things dont work. Along with building stamina, correctt technique (through application) and a tougher mindset.
You dont and cant get that through quick 3 secoond scenarios
GlennR
[QUOTE=n.mitch;1076152]I think that in a real life self defence application head shots are fine because instead of punching just use a bill jee strike to the eyes , its easiy to hit. In sparing practise body shots because they canbe a little harder to pull off even with 4 ounce gloves, using a wing chun punch[/QUOTE]
And youdagree its harder to hit Non-WC with body shots Nathan?
[QUOTE=Nite Templar;1076160]I think that one should be hitting the targets that are open, regardless of whether it’s the head or the body. And the point the OP made about wing chun head positioning and stance being predictable and not conducive to throwing body shots also seems right. If a hook or an uppercut shot is available to the body, why not throw it, even if it doesn’t exactly look like typical wing chun? Maybe the basic wing chun head and body positioning is a bit rigid and too straight up?[/QUOTE]
Yep, i agree totally in regards to hitting through openings.
But why do so many WC clips fail to show this?
Dave just put up some sparring clips on ather thread and i hardly saw a body shot thrown. Yet im sure all those guys have chi-saoed to death striking the body constant;y at that range.
And a lot of people that spar WC agreewith your comment about head height and positioning
GlennR
[QUOTE=KPM;1076233]Hey Glenn!
I find sparring (both MT & Boxing) that it can be hard to get of the WC punch as a body shot on occasion.
—Why is that? Are you using the “uppercut” from the Chum Kiu form? Its great for body shots. Are you using the straight low punch derived from the “teut sau” motions of the Siu Lim Tao form? Also good for body shots. Are you really close when you throw them?
Personally, i feel a bit open at times in comparison to when i use boxing techniques, in regards to body shots, and i feel this is due to the static head height of WC.
—Why would the head height have anything to do with being open to body shots? If you are bending over with your chin forward are you any less open to body shots? You just have to keep your arms/elbows in a little tighter for coverage if you think body shots are coming. Then as soon as one hits on your arm as it covers, you spring off sharply with a straight punch to his face.[/QUOTE]
Hi Jim
Regarding the CK uppercut, i use it exclusively as a head shot (i actually dont think it hits hard enough for a bodyshot) and certainly use the straight punch in close as you describe. And yep, im really close.
And you are way less open to body shots in a boxers crouch and have a better delivery system to return a very strong body rip from this position (IMHHHHHO ;)).
And i do exactly as you describe re elbows in and reply straight shot
GlennR