Yer its ok from the side, but in the center your chin can be exposed with wc body punches . When u try to cramp your opponent when sparring, and your opponent moves back if u don’t keep up and then try to wc body punch sometimes u leave ur chin open. I find to use the chum kiu uppercut for a body shot when sparring sometimes u have to change the delivery from the form application
[QUOTE=GlennR;1076246]Some fair pints thee JS, but when im sparring MT i using all of the waepons youyve mentioned.
I dont go with you “round” idea though. Sure WC is supposed to close down the other guy quick but sparring is learning and trying things when other things dont work. Along with building stamina, correctt technique (through application) and a tougher mindset.
You dont and cant get that through quick 3 secoond scenarios
GlennR[/QUOTE]
I like to line a group of partners up and go “3 second scenarios” one after another. You get the stamina and tough mindset without the “sport” aspects.
I normally go for body shots from the side. Being short sometimes its all you can hit till you can bring them down far enough to hit the head. Also it can bring the guys hands down enough to get a shot or too if close enough.
I use the chum kiu punch normally when really close. Either when my other hand does the neck grab/strike, on the ground when really really close as you get a bit more power in that close and its hard to keep the vertical fist when hitting their sides when in eith mount or gaurd, or I find its good if the person has pulled me down (usually clich, plum etc.).
I dont go for the body if I end up in the centre as I think this leaves you open like others have mentioned.
DO NOT GO FOR THE EYES. Try it and you will find that you are more likely to hit either their forehead, cheeks or their nose. We did conditioning drills once that came from a book about how they condition soilders to kill people, its called “on killing, the psycological cost of killing in warfare”. My teacher Bill had it on his recomended reading list. I advise everyone to read it. But the drill was using oranges on peoples eyes and doing eye gouges. Most people wouldn’t even do it, ones that did felt it was weird and hardly anyone actually hit where the eyes are.
i have had three people stick their fingers in my eyes, ( one nearly to the first knuckle) and they were more feaked out then me. One was nearly sick. Eyes are hard to conciously attack.
I think attacking the eyes is like attacking any other target , you need target practice , it dosent have to be a full strike, it can be a flick straight from the start of the bil form causing a momentary distraction, so you can attack more oppenings or run, I think eyes,throat and groin are all good self defence areas to attack. There are videos of karate guys geting kicked in the groin reapetedly focus their chi and supposedly not feeling pain, and the shoalin monks leaning on speers at their throats, tricks or not? U dont see any demos of guys getting reapetdly hit in the eyes. I find getting flicked in the eye proberly causes my eyes to water and harder trouble seeing than getting poked in the, eye when sparing.
I find the shoveling punch from my version of the 2nd form (some people have the upppercut here) works well for body shots…
[QUOTE=mjw;1076521]I find the shoveling punch from my version of the 2nd form (some people have the upppercut here) works well for body shots…[/QUOTE]
I find that the difference between a shoveling punch and an uppercut with that Chum Kiu technique is simply how far you follow through. So in the form, you are training both!
My teacher calls it the upsetting punch. He thinks uppercut give the wrong idea. Its more forward and not just striaght up like an uppercut. David peterson gave me some good ideas about the angle of the wrist to what level you are punching at.
I found doing basic ground punching on the bag (got it off a UFC video) that its really hard to hit with the normal punch to the side when you are that close on the ground. Just grab a bag, lay it on top of you and hit it. The twist from the chum kiu punch seems to give it more power and bites into the bag more. Its hard to hit at the right angle to be able to hit with just the knuckles using the normal punch. You tend to have to start with your elbow out way out then strike, which isnt preferable. Or use the punch out of biu jee but my wrsit isn’t strong enough to deliver heaps of force without my wrist giving way.
I actually read that book ‘on killing’ not that long ago. The gist of it seemed to be that killing is not a natural thing and that many soldiers aim to miss (except for the Vietnam war where most GIs aimed to hit). It was written by a desk jockey who’d never been in combat in his life. Personally I woudlnt recommend it.
[QUOTE=backyard1;1080347]I actually read that book ‘on killing’ not that long ago. The gist of it seemed to be that killing is not a natural thing and that many soldiers aim to miss (except for the Vietnam war where most GIs aimed to hit). It was written by a desk jockey who’d never been in combat in his life. Personally I woudlnt recommend it.[/QUOTE]
Havent read the book but he is correct here. killing is not something easily done
[QUOTE=GlennR;1076246]Some fair pints thee JS, but when im sparring MT i using all of the waepons youyve mentioned… GlennR[/QUOTE]
Glenn, I haven’t had much experience with Muay Thai guys, so maybe you can help me on this. You say you use all the basic WC “weapons” Jeetsao mentiond (elbows, kicks, open-hands, etc.). Still, when I watch Muay Thai guys going at it, because of the rules, they don’t protect their lower-level centerline. In WC, as with our hands, our leg attacks favor the center, going between the legs and often attacking the groin. If you take away some of our best hand targets, the neck and throat, and also take away our best centerline leg targets, then of course you will have to fight more like they do. That even affects how many body shots you can apply. Body shots straight to the gut of a highly conditioned athlete won’t be immediately effective. I prefer to turn my opponent and shoot low palms or punches to the ribs (as in the dummy form). But again this is harder to pull off under fighting rules that protect key centerline targets and encourage the use of wider, hooking attacks. It can be harder to turn or get around an opponent who fights like that and get a lateral angle to deliver the rib shot.
[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1080366]Glenn, I haven’t had much experience with Muay Thai guys, so maybe you can help me on this. You say you use all the basic WC “weapons” Jeetsao mentiond (elbows, kicks, open-hands, etc.). Still, when I watch Muay Thai guys going at it, because of the rules, they don’t protect their lower-level centerline. In WC, as with our hands, our leg attacks favor the center, going between the legs and often attacking the groin. If you take away some of our best hand targets, the neck and throat, and also take away our best centerline leg targets, then of course you will have to fight more like they do. That even affects how many body shots you can apply. Body shots straight to the gut of a highly conditioned athlete won’t be immediately effective. I prefer to turn my opponent and shoot low palms or punches to the ribs (as in the dummy form). But again this is harder to pull off under fighting rules that protect key centerline targets and encourage the use of wider, hooking attacks. It can be harder to turn or get around an opponent who fights like that and get a lateral angle to deliver the rib shot.[/QUOTE]
I guess from a WC point of view they appear open, but they arent.
The thing about MT is that it doesnt favour straight or round attacks… it covers both.
Just because they dont have everything on the centre doesnt mean they cant cover the centre, they just do it differently to us
Heres a clip showing the Teep which shows how they cover the lower centre and train against straight attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMMBRBNtZLw
GlennR
guys;
ever thought about using the punch with the turning body (as seen in jin choi)? It works really well and is similar, but not the exact same, to a boxers shovel hook
Time and time again we all say that the forms are just collections strewn together. Yet some struggle to pull something out and use it individually.
There is turning in Chum Kiu for many reasons, such as to re-face the centre, power generation, etc. - not just to link with the shovel hook.
Problem isn’t the forms, it’s the drills. Best way to practice the body shots/shovel hooks is on the mitts, perhaps Chi Sau and then a partner, of course in ‘real time.’ Shovels/uppercuts/body are difficult to pull off with the targeting/distancing in the beginning so mitts and isolated sparring scenarios are a good idea.