William Cheung answering questions at his first NYC seminar back in February,1984. That’s me facing the camera with the white sleeveless shirt that has a photo on it of William Cheung doing a bil jee strike…and about 40 seconds into it you’ll see Robert Chu standing right behind me…and if you listen carefully the very first question on this clip comes from Phil Redmond…(and Phil’s face does appear briefly as he faces the camera around 30 seconds in when William Cheung makes a joke about “chi rice”).
I had forgotten what hair was… 
Thanks Victor!
[QUOTE=chusauli;940111]I had forgotten what hair was…
Thanks Victor![/QUOTE]
LMAO !!
Ah the 80’s, hey, at least it wasn’t a flock of seaguls haircut, now that would have gotten you in some serious trouble Robert !
Now here’s another one, and in this one I get to learn exactly what William Cheung thinks of the whole idea of “chi geak” (sticking legs). (Not much) 
I volunteered to demonstrate what I had learned of it from Moy Yat - and William Cheung took the opportunity to explain to me (and the rest of those present) how useless it really all is as a drill, in his opinion. :eek:
I had to crack up when I saw this (for the first time, about 2 minutes ago) - had forgotten all about it.
Jeez, 25 years went by quickly !! 
…
And once again, there’s Robert Chu taking it all in as well. (And he still had his hair!)
It’s too bad Cheung doesn’t know what chi gerk is for.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Vic,
You didn’t post the link…
I actually remember that day. I also thought many drills in WCK are useless - for example:
Pak Sao - no one stands at a fixed distance and lets you throw punches at them.
Dan Chi Sao - the distance is fixed, the other hand is chambered, I would not hit an opponent in the chest with a palm strike… the exercise is boring and unrealistic; Cross Hands Chi Sao is also equally lame
Luk Sao - Who the hell rolls like that in real life?
Tui Ma- pushing horse, Hands gripping an opponent’s forearm, or hands behind the back…
Of course, William transcended all those exercises, and most of the exercises I described above were for people not experienced in anything at all.
So its not just Chi Gerk.
Chi Gerk will however, will teach you:
Bo Faat/Stepping – Moving the stance
Bik Faat/Trapping – Trapping the opponent’s leg
Gerk Faat/Striking – Use of the foot, knee, shin, thigh
Jeet Faat/Intercepting – cutting off the opponent’s attack
Jou Faat/Running – going away from the force
Sou Faat/Sweeping – Destroying the opponent’s balance
Chi Faat/Sticking – Moving with the opponent
Mun Faat/Asking – Inquiring the next move
Wu Faat/Protecting – Guarding the body and placement of the knee
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;940237]zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz[/QUOTE]
If you bother to look at the Cheung-Boztepe fight, you’ll see for yourself why it is too bad he didn’t know what chi gerk was for – and why he ended up on his ass.
The link is there, Robert - on the bottom.
Thanks Victor.
[QUOTE=chusauli;940239]Vic,
You didn’t post the link…
I actually remember that day. I also thought many drills in WCK are useless - for example:
Pak Sao - no one stands at a fixed distance and lets you throw punches at them.
Dan Chi Sao - the distance is fixed, the other hand is chambered, I would not hit an opponent in the chest with a palm strike… the exercise is boring and unrealistic; Cross Hands Chi Sao is also equally lame
Luk Sao - Who the hell rolls like that in real life?
Tui Ma- pushing horse, Hands gripping an opponent’s forearm, or hands behind the back…
Of course, William transcended all those exercises, and most of the exercises I described above were for people not experienced in anything at all.
So its not just Chi Gerk.
Chi Gerk will however, will teach you:
Bo Faat/Stepping Moving the stance
Bik Faat/Trapping Trapping the opponents leg
Gerk Faat/Striking Use of the foot, knee, shin, thigh
Jeet Faat/Intercepting cutting off the opponents attack
Jou Faat/Running going away from the force
Sou Faat/Sweeping Destroying the opponents balance
Chi Faat/Sticking Moving with the opponent
Mun Faat/Asking Inquiring the next move
Wu Faat/Protecting Guarding the body and placement of the knee[/QUOTE]
***HAVE to disagree, strongly, Robert. About most of what you said here, in fact.
First of all, if you go to this link I’m about to provide…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o8oiJ9zmGA
…instead of just watching that vid…click on the icon on the top right (my photo - and it says SifuParlati)…
and you will then see a listing of 17 vids I’ve put up…and start watching the chi sao series numbered 1-13…and watch them sequentially. (It starts with dan chi sao).
AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE “NARROWNESS” OF THE VIDS…it seems that my student who posted them had a problem that he hasn’t yet corrected with the proper “aspect ratio” needed to post vids the right way - and hence my 170 lbs. looks more like a matchstick man who weighs about 130. LOL.
But anyway, I intend to post many more vids in this series that demonstrate how to apply what one learns in chi sao (and other drills) to actual fighting/sparring…what I like to call how to TRANSLATE chi sao into fighting.
Here’s an example of what I mean: there are also 4 other vids posted on my channel…and one of them is entitled: wing chun vs. straight lead punch…
In a future “chi sao translation” vid, I intend to explain and demo how and why I MIGHT NOT use the chuen sao (threading hand bil sao) that follows the pak sao in that vid about the straight punch, ie.- if the opponent’s punching angle was ACROSS the line going to my left…
in which case to try and chuen off the pak would be foolishness…since THROUGH CHI SAO TRAINING I should be able to feel that his punch is across my “line”…and make that determination (and act accordingly) in a micro-second.
So I believe all the drills we’re discussing have value, when the translations are understood - including chi geak.
If you watch the vid with myself and William Cheung, you’ll notice that toward the end he agreed with me on the one point about using one of the positions/moves in chi geak against a kick coming in at you - but he (rightly) corrected me about what part of my leg to use.
NOW HERE’S THE BIGGER PROBLEM AS I SEE IT, ROBERT:
Too many wing chun people have never been taught high quality chi sao - as well as quality sparring/fighting translations of what they learn in chi sao (and other drills)…
and hence, they either wind up with a whole bunch of clueless ideas about how to use wing chun - or they come to the conclusion that things like forms, chi sao, and chi sao related drills are all useless - and they wind up throwing the baby out with the bathwater - including drills like dan chi sao, luk sao, cross arm chi sao, pak sao-pak da, bong sao-lop sao, etc.
So TWC does not have a Chi Gerk practice today?
No, there is no chi geak training in TWC.
Btw, did you see my post#11.
Also, Robert, you can see one such “translation” toward the end of chi sao vid part 6.
But as I said, I plan to do much more than that by way of translations.
Victor,
I am playing Devil’s advocate, because those were the thoughts that went through me when William Cheung talked about the uselessness of Chi Gerk.
Playing Devil’s Advocate, you can think that almost all fixed drills have an apparent weakness. Other than that, no big deal - they’re just drills to impart and concentrate a level of skill.
Not sure what else you disagree strongly with. Of course, always happy to hear what you have to say.
Many thanks,
Ultimate Wing Chun posted:
and William Cheung took the opportunity to explain to me (and the rest of those present) how useless it really all is as a drill, in his opinion.
t_niehoff posted:
It’s too bad Cheung doesn’t know what chi gerk is for.
Oh wow Niehoff do you practice Chi Gerk…The way it is practiced is unrealistic how does it prepare you for real fighting. I mean really who the hell is going to kick you like that. Not a Kickboxer or someone who practices; Gojoryu Karate,Shotokan, Kyoshukin, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai or Tang So Do…Do they kick like that? How does Chi Gerk prepare you for real competent fighters outside of Wing Chun kwoons???
Back in the days of Yip Man and his brothers learning WC did they practice Chi Gerk. No Chi Gerk is later invention is it not?
Almost all fixed drills have an apparant weakness
Agreed, Robert…this is certainly true.
And of course the most obvious weakness is the fact they’re fixed - whereas real fighting/sparring is always “alive”…and things learned from a fixed drill therefore have to be adapted/translated into the spontaneity of real fighting/sparring on a dime.
Which means that you not only have to master the “basics” of the drills (including chi sao) - to the point where you can do them in your sleep…
but more importantly, you have to be able to improvise on a dime with what you learn from those drills.
Here’s an example (and I intend to post vids about this also at some point):
the basic pak sao-pak da drill that most, if not all, wing chun sytems use has a variation in TWC that includes several ways to come with footwork - including footwork being utilized on every movement used against every punch being thrown by the partner…
with some further variations that I came up with some years ago…so that the latest “version” of the pak sao-pak da drill that I use presently uses all the footwork just described along with a chuen off the pak that might end with a lop da against a high straight punch…(seen in the vid I referred to on an earlier post on my youtube channel)…
…a pak-tan da against a mid level straight punch…and a pak-garn sao against a low straight punch…
followed by drills wherein you don’t know which of the three is coming in advance.
Just a for instance.
The same with the bong sao-lop drills utilized by most wing chun systems: there are several variations of this used in TWC that include footwork on every move:
The basic bong-lop used against high straight punches - a jut garn against a low straight punch, and even a bil sao/chuen sao/lop sao against a high round punch…and a garn sao variation against a low round punch…
but all done within a basic bong sao-lop sao platform that moves…followed by a repeat of the drill but wherein you don’t know what’s coming next.
BUT THE BIGGER POINT IS:
They’re just drills - and the spontaneous adaptions/translations of these drills used in actual sparring is the most essential thing.
Here’s a real interesting short chi sao clip…
William Cheung here in NYC ten years later (1994)…and his partner in the vid is Joe Sayah.
But there’s a LOT GOING ON in this double arm chi sao vid that can be translated into fighting/sparring - in terms of footwork, body positioning, and countering someone’s attempts to control your arms and your balance as a response to your inital lop sao attack upon him.
BUT AGAIN: THE TRANSLATIONS may look very different in the “live” fight or spar - but the skill sets needed in those instances have their developmental foundations in a chi sao interchange like those seen in this vid.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;940260]Too many wing chun people have never been taught high quality chi sao [/QUOTE]High level chi sao/gor sao should contain principles learned and trained almost exactly as in chi gerk (as listed by Robert earlier). It’s basic clinch work.