discuss 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKFNCIJdvA&feature=player_embedded
i like seeing an aggressive fighterâŚbut if youre going to commit to starting the action, you better be faster and more efficient than that. and at least stick with it and not back up after throwing 1 or 2 punches or kicks.
heâs being countered every time with a quick jab from a taller dude. as a strategy, heâs not even messing with the guyâs âstructureâ, âcenter of gravityâ, âaxisâ etc etc.
he never up-rooted the tall guy or brought him down to his level.
the other guy (boxer) seems totally fine and in control even when heâs would appear to be giving up to some.
why is the wing chun dude head hunting when punching the guy in the head is too tall for him? where where the body punches? heâs lucky the dude wasnât a kicker.
why didnât he stay committed instead of keep backing off once he had him.
obviously, the boxer is playing with him the entire time, and the boxer isnt even that great in terms of other boxers.
and at the end, he gets punched right down the middle in the face by a slow cross. because he starts copying the other guys hands by dropping them. the problem is, heâs not a boxer and doesnât have the reflexes to play that game.
i mean, this all obvious. not even sure itâs worth mentioning anything i wrote.
in all seriousness the boxer had a big height advantage.
[QUOTE=Frost;1071953]discuss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKFNCIJdvA&feature=player_embedded[/QUOTE]
How not to fight a boxerâŚdonât try to kickbox with WCK! :eek: The guy is this clip seems to know a more WCK than the guy above, but he still doesnât fair to well against this kickboxer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iLZ-BEgqo&feature=related
The problem is closing the gap so that you can make good use of your WCK. Bruce Lee recognized this problem and I think it was one of the factors leading to the creation of JKD. If you want to kickbox with a WCK âflavorâ, study some JKD! But donât try to make WCK into something it is notâŚbecause it doesnât work very well âŚas most of these clips on the internet will attest!!
[QUOTE=KPM;1071963]How not to fight a boxerâŚdonât try to kickbox with WCK! :eek: The guy is this clip seems to know a more WCK than the guy above, but he still doesnât fair to well against this kickboxer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iLZ-BEgqo&feature=related
The problem is closing the gap so that you can make good use of your WCK. Bruce Lee recognized this problem and I think it was one of the factors leading to the creation of JKD. If you want to kickbox with a WCK âflavorâ, study some JKD! But donât try to make WCK into something it is notâŚbecause it doesnât work very well âŚas most of these clips on the internet will attest!![/QUOTE]
i think you went off on a tangent that missed the point.
[QUOTE=tigershorty;1071967]i think you went off on a tangent that missed the point.[/QUOTE]
A clip was posted with the invitation to discuss. The clip showed a WCK guy doing very poorly against a boxer because he was trying to âkickboxâ with his WCK. It was definitely an example of how NOT to fight a boxer, as the original poster said, and which I agreed with. So how did I go off on a tangent, and where did I miss the point?
The best way to fight against a boxer is not to play boxing game with him but to take him down ASAP. Itâs just âcommon senseâ and has nothing to do with style.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1071977]The best way to fight against a boxer is not to play boxing game with him but to take him down ASAP. Itâs just âcommon senseâ and has nothing to do with style.[/QUOTE]
Nice idea⌠but but how does the WC guy do this in the clip provided?
[QUOTE=GlennR;1071979]Nice idea⌠but but how does the WC guy do this in the clip provided?[/QUOTE]
I didnât know that sparring clip had rules that âthrowingâ was not allowed.
[QUOTE=KPM;1071976]A clip was posted with the invitation to discuss. The clip showed a WCK guy doing very poorly against a boxer because he was trying to âkickboxâ with his WCK. It was definitely an example of how NOT to fight a boxer, as the original poster said, and which I agreed with. So how did I go off on a tangent, and where did I miss the point?[/QUOTE]
well, first. he wasnât trying to kickbox. he was trying to do wing chun. the clip you posted has the wing chun guy not even looking anything close to wing chun. you went into JKD, and bruce lee because you think wing chun apparently has a problem bridging the gap. so basically, your answer isâŚYOU canât bridge the gap with wing chun. you could say the guy didnât bridge the gap very well, but you went off on a tangent about wing chunâs faults in your opinion, not what the guy was doing.
donât use bruce lee as an example for wing chun, he didnât even get close to finishing his wing training. HE LATER ADMITTED TO WONG SHUN LEUNG THAT HE REGRETTED MAKING JEET KUN DO. not that i have a problem with it, but seriouslyâŚlike, where are you coming from most of the time when you post?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1071977]The best way to fight against a boxer is not to play boxing game with him but to take him down ASAP. Itâs just âcommon senseâ and has nothing to do with style.[/QUOTE]
It has everything to do with skills and skills are going to be dependent on what you train and what you train will often be called âstyleââŚ
Most plain vanilla VT peeps donât have a ground game.. They are supposed to have a stand up game though⌠So unless VT having any kind of game is a myth then it stands to reason that the VT man should have some skills that would allow him to use his stand up game.. However using VT as pure kick boxing will take away much of VTâs tool set.
Most VT folks have trouble entering because itâs not trained enough and most VT folks have much more trouble when the opponent is taller and has considerably longer reach.
[QUOTE=KPM;1071963]The problem is closing the gap so that you can make good use of your WCK. Bruce Lee recognized this problem and I think it was one of the factors leading to the creation of JKD. If you want to kickbox with a WCK âflavorâ, study some JKD! But donât try to make WCK into something it is notâŚbecause it doesnât work very well âŚas most of these clips on the internet will attest!![/QUOTE]
I donât see a problem with WCK not being able to close the gap. Why would you say this? If you occupy the line, have good structure, fwd intent and understand proper range, whatâs the problem?
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1072018]I donât see a problem with WCK not being able to close the gap. Why would you say this? If you occupy the line, have good structure, fwd intent and understand proper range, whatâs the problem?[/QUOTE]
The âproblemâ is that it is much easier written than done AND that there is precious little evidence that many VT peeps are doing it regularly against decent boxersâŚ
his problem is not because he knows wing chun.
the loser basically kept charging straight in in without setting up an attack. the boxer (probably with more experience) just kept picking him off with round punches (avoiding the attack) and a longer reach.
the loser kept charging in over and over again, not changing his game plan.
wing chunâs problem is not its techniques, its the fact that most teachers donât know how to apply what they teach.
In my personal experience, the jab and cross just donât work well againt hook punch. When your opponent uses hook to deal with your jab or cross, Even if he misses your head, his fore-arm can still knock your fore-arm down, that will interrupt the continuation of your straight line chain punches. A good hook punch can integrate both offense and defense in one.
Just like in the spear fighting, the best defense against a straight line spear stabbing is a circular spear deflect. This is to use the âcircularâ motion to counter the âstraight lineâ motion issue.
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1072018]I donât see a problem with WCK not being able to close the gap. Why would you say this? If you occupy the line, have good structure, fwd intent and understand proper range, whatâs the problem?[/QUOTE]
i agree, jp.
he didnt say what was wrong with the person, he said what was wrong with wing chun (the misguided tangent) it would seem his wing chung cant bridge the gap, therefore he imposes someone doing kickboxing? who was really doing wing chun that didnt work.
i dont get where this guy is coming from..no offense, tho. i just think you missed the point of the question, kpm.
Boxer has a significant reach advantage
And wing chunner has a sandcastle chin 
[QUOTE=Frost;1071953]discuss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKFNCIJdvA&feature=player_embedded[/QUOTE]
Interesting clip, but that was no boxer but a pretty casual Muay Thai fighter using his hands. Nice session though and something that actually looked quite friendly and enjoyable imho. Reminded me a little of the Chuck & Bruce fight in WOTD, when Chuck starts to mimic Bruce and gets blasted.
Exactly what happened here imo.
When you fight/spar with Wing Chun, do so. Donât try to play their game when they obviously have more experience at what they do than you will! If you have trained well, entry to a tall, longer reach opponent isnât as dificult as people think. You also have the benefit of striking upwards under the chin, so drill specifics and just donât fall into the âmirror trapâ.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1071977]The best way to fight against a boxer is not to play boxing game with him but to take him down ASAP. Itâs just âcommon senseâ and has nothing to do with style.[/QUOTE]
So what you are suggesting is that a stand up style that is meant to be a close range striking art should abandon its principles and look for the throw as soon as it comes up against a boxer?