Knifefighter:
Just a word of caution to you…If you’ve never experienced the power of an art like Zen Chi Fa, then I’d suggest you do so before trying to submit a kung fu master.
Trying to take down a skilled Zen Chi Fa practicioner is akin to suicide.
[This message has been edited by Chameleon (edited 07-24-2000).]
this is fucking ridiculous. i appologize for being part of the childish and pointless thread preceeding this post. the only reason i posted at all was because i thought knifefighter . . the guy who actually started the thread . . wasnt giving kung fu credit where it was deserved. this isn’t the case, and after he was question about it by myself and others he made it clear. everyone is going to think their art is the best . . period. it is a natural bias and there isnt a problem with it. howerver, the best fighter wins the fight . . . period. there is no style that is going to change that reality. someone may become a better fighter using bbj or kung fu, but if a bar brawler is a better fighter than these guys he will win. so love your stlye, respect others, and stop acting like pride slapped three year olds.
GunnedDownAtrocity:
You can pretend that it is the person and not the art…But then, you’ve obviously never seen the deadly art of Zen Chi Fa either.
KF - I KNOW there’s good kungfu guys in LA, it’s just a matter of finding them.
I’m way up in Canada, so I’m hardly familiar with the people down there, but you should post a new thread asking for peeps in LA who would be open to some friendly tests of skill.
The only guys I know in California are Mike Patterson, whose fighters have proven in the ring that they’re excellent; and Adam Hsu, who is also bound to have some good students somewhere, but his people are in Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, and San Francisco, which are probably no closer to you than La Mesa.
Best wishes.
What have these Kung Fu masters done or proven to make you believe that their techniques are so superior to BJJ? I say if you doubt brazilian jiu jitsu you should just go to a bjj academy and ask for a challenge match. I’m sure you would have no problem finding someone willing to fight you.
Zen Chi FA 
I knew that sounded familiar.
It’s true, if ever faced with a true Zen Chi Fa master, Royce would piss his gi pants and run to pappa.
JWT
I have an idea…lets get ahold of the moderators and have them add a BJJ forum and when we all come to the conclusion that what we have studied for the past 10-15 years is all crap in the face of a pract with 6 months exp in BJJ, we can all go there and get enlightened
PEOPLE! PEOPLE! PEOPLE!
This is getting down right stupid! I think the whole lot of you need to grow up! You’re all acting worse than my two year old niece!
My god! You try to have a civilized conversation, and it turns into a “My sifu can beat your sifu” bs-ing match. Neither bjj nor kung fu is superior to the other. No matter what variable you plug in, it will still come down to the fighters involved.
So… THAT’S IT! YOU’RE ALL GROUNDED! GO TO YOUR ROOM WITH-OUT SUPPER! AND AN EXTRA THREE HOURS OF HORSE-STANCE TRAINING! It’s obvious that many of you could use the dicipline.
And people wonder why I don’t want kids of my own…
Brat,
Hmmm…I don’t see how it is different then a Kung Fu stylist saying he can not be taken to the ground, even though taking someone to the ground and submitting them is all that a BJJ stylist trains for. IMHO I really don’t feel that anyone here is saying that all your training is crap, only some of it 
Seriously though, it is just a fact that few people train the ground as they should, and that it should be given some credit and not discounted because of a personal bias. Ground work is a very important area often ignored to much by too many. Train it, whether it is with high school wrestling, traditional Judo, Sambo, Shooto, or whatever but it should be trained and not ignored. Hey even three months of BJJ is good enough to allow you to hold your own on the ground.-ED
“The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground…take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up…keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere…be ready and able to go everywhere.”-a mix martial artist
my point is BJJ is great, as are kung fu styles…and if a kung fu man thinks he cant be taken down, he is in for a big (and painful suprise) and if a BJJ guy thinks it’s a given that he can just take a kung fu guy down, well…the same thing applies. It comes down to who is doing the fighting, ultimately.
Brat is right. Why dont all you bjj nutriders go find a bjj forum and go pound your chests there. Also your hero royce got his butt kicked by a little japanese guy, guess why: he couldnt take him down hahahahaha! You think its so hard to believe a kung fu master couldnt do the same? Time to turn off the ufc and wake up.
Has anyone else actually checked out the Zen Chi FA link?
Damn funny stuff.
JWT
DRAGONMASTER…Yup…ROYCE did get his ass whipped by SAKURABA…the no. 1 ranked middleweight submission fighter in the world! I like BJJ but it was great seeing someone beat ROYCE( big MOUTH ) down.
Don’t forget:
August 27th Pride 10
-Renzo Gracie vs. Kazushi Sakuraba
It will be a great fight.
Wow,that was fast. When did this one get finalized? Any word on the rules?
JWT
Think it was finalized in the past couple days. I figure it will be regular Pride rules.
“I woudnt recommend it, you might wind up blind, maimed or dead. Not worth it.”
Well, we’re in luck 'cause Knifefighter is already blind, four limb amputee walking zombie, so there’s no real risk!
WARNING: Knifefighter’s the most dangerous undead, no limbed blind fighter I’ve ever seen, so watch out. He’ll bite your leg off.
[This message has been edited by Z (edited 07-25-2000).]
<Brat is right. Why dont all you bjj nutriders go find a bjj forum and go pound your chests there. Also your hero royce got his butt kicked by a little japanese guy, guess why: he couldnt take him down hahahahaha! You think its so hard to believe a kung fu master couldnt do the same? Time to turn off the ufc and wake up.>
So, basicly, what you’re saying is that Kung-Fu is the best there is. Nothing else is needed. Nothing else is needed. Hmmmmmmmmm. I think someone is watching a bit too many Hong Kong KF films.
I don’t do BJJ. I’ve dabbled in a bit of it (About 1 month) but not enough to seriously consider myself a practitioner. I can definately agree with you on the fact that BJJ guys have huge egos, but then again, so do many Kung-Fu guys. I can understand you people getting POed at the BJJers for bashing KF, but then again, how do you think the BJJers feel when Kung-Fu guys jump in and start prancing around, telling that KF can destroy BJJ easily.
I can easily tell you this. A guys that has been taking BJJ for 5 months, versus a guy that has been taking Kung-Fu for 5 months, will lose to the BJJ guy in a heartbeat.
Now, I don’t know about the masters of the respective arts, but I do know that BJJ trains you to be effective in a very short time. (Which is something Kung-Fu lacks in)
Laughing Tiger is right though (Now he’s a TRUE Kung-Fu practitioner that keeps an open mind) If you ‘Kung-Fu masters’ think that you can keep yourself from being taken down, I’m just gonna hope that your medical insurance sovers it. On the other hand, if BJJ guys think a take-down is given, and you’ll get in unscathed, then you’d better hope those ‘taps’ on the head don’t lower your IQ anymore. (That’s the point to cross-training)
PS
I don’t like Royce. And Sak will destroy Renzo.
Any coward can fight a battle when he’s sure of winning.
-George Elliot
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knifefighter:
[b]Laughing Tiger:
The reason that BJJ has so many techniques that are unique to it only is because it is just about the only style where two guys spend 95% of their time rolling around on the floor. The thousands of Chinese masters that you refer to spent the majority of their time developing standing, throwing and/or joint locking techniques, but didnÂ’t spend 95% ot their time rolling around on the ground. When you spend the majority of time doing something that most other people donÂ’t do much of, if at all, it stands to reason that you will develop things that are unique to that only. I have spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours, learning thousands of techniques from the different ground positions that most people would not even recognize, let alone understand, unless they had the same or more ground specific training.
For you guys to say that you know the same techniques is just ludicrous. It would be just as ludicrous for me to say I have seen all the techniques in monkey kung fu when I have not studied it. Unless you have spent hours upon hours with a person laying on top of you from the side, or with one leg wrapped inside the other, or with his feet in opposite directions as your, or sitting out towards your head, or sitting out towards your feet, or straddling your torso, or with you legs around his torso, you cannot even begin to imagine the variety of subtle techniques that are used from these positions. And that is only from the bottom. There are just as many techniques if not more that are done from the top position. And then there is with the gi or without the gi, not to mention pure submission grappling or Vale Tudo. This is why, unless you have extensive ground grappling training, I can pretty much guarantee that I can show anyone many, many techniques that he has never seen before.[/b][/quote] knife where do you train? reality
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knifefighter:
Any good Kung Fu masters in the Los Angeles area that I might try taking down?[/quote]stay down home boy.check out www.doubleleg.com or www.intheguard.com