Benefits of Horse Stance Training

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
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Stance training isn’t that bad, especially in the beginning. The key is to be consistency and perseverence.

We did 16 stances (some repeating) consecutively. every day, or every other day.

at first 15 seconds each = 4 minutes total

add a few seconds every week or so for a month.

15 stances ay 30 sec = 8 mins.

Eventually 1 minute each = 16 minutes .

We were also encouraged to jyst stand in a horse stance if you’re at home, working on homework, at the dinner table, or some activity where you are static for 20-30 minutes.

The longest that I have ever held one was 45 minutes during a lecture in class. But by that point in my training, I could have held it much longer…but that’s about the maximum benefit that you should expect from stance training.

Strong, stable legs for as long as I need them. Sort of the end point for stance training.

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[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1189175]Stance training has benefits. People who have held stances for time and made increases over several months usually realize how weak their legs were before they started training.
[/QUOTE]

If “weak” is defined as “the inability to hold a horse stance for a long period of time,” then sure.

But past the first minute or two they didn’t get stronger, all they got was more endurance when it comes to holding horse stance.

Not cardiovascular endurance, just muscular endurance at that particular angle.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189187]

Once you get past holding horse stance for a certain point (most likely a minute or two), the only benefit you continue to gain is the ability to hold a horse stance longer (and I will agree that there are some mental toughness benefits that come with it)..[/QUOTE]

The mental toughness from a horse stance is minimal, as the stance is relatively high. The real willpower comes from holding the ‘thighs parallel’ stances. You bite holes in your tongue just to take your mind off of the pain and burning in your legs.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189189]If “weak” is defined as “the inability to hold a horse stance for a long period of time,” then sure.

But past the first minute or two they didn’t get stronger, all they got was more endurance when it comes to holding horse stance.

Not cardiovascular endurance, just muscular endurance at that particular angle.[/QUOTE]

Yep, but that kind of endurance is valuable in a fight/competition.

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[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1189192]Yep, but that kind of endurance is valuable in a fight/competition.[/QUOTE]

only if you are holding that angle for a period of time, and unless you fight out of a horse stance you wont be so why bother?
as a strength building exercise its next to worthless unless you are weak as a kitten to begin with
as an endurance exercise again its next to worthless,
as a flexibility exercise its next to..well you get it
Now as a way to fill the time in a class and weed out people it has merit

26

[QUOTE=Frost;1189193]only if you are holding that angle for a period of time, and unless you fight out of a horse stance you wont be so why bother?[/QUOTE]

Fighting, wrestling etc…is conducted from a bent legged posture. So while you are fighting, you are ‘holding that angle for a period of time’.

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[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1189194]Fighting, wrestling etc…is conducted from a bent legged posture. So while you are fighting, you are ‘holding that angle for a period of time’.[/QUOTE]

Well, outside of AMA, you won’t find much static stance training.
You don’t find it in boxing or in wrestling for example.
And even in AMA, you don’t find it that much either.
You don’t find it in the grappling arts and while you find it in some striking systems, it is usually done as part of the basics routine while throwing technqiues ( examples being in Karate and TKD when students hold the horse stance while punching and blocking in the air).
Holding a stances in a static way just for the sake of holding it is generally found in TCMA.

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1189196]Well, outside of AMA, you won’t find much static stance training.
You don’t find it in boxing or in wrestling for example.
And even in AMA, you don’t find it that much either.
You don’t find it in the grappling arts and while you find it in some striking systems, it is usually done as part of the basics routine while throwing technqiues ( examples being in Karate and TKD when students hold the horse stance while punching and blocking in the air).
Holding a stances in a static way just for the sake of holding it is generally found in TCMA.[/QUOTE]

We used to do ‘wall squats’ in wrestling practice.

That was a static position, with the thighs parallel, and the back flat up against the wall.

We held it for one minute. Everyone hated it except for the three of us who had ma training. lol

29

Wow

There are some ignorant, stupid, and uneducated people here. Unreal.

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[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1189200]We used to do ‘wall squats’ in wrestling practice.

That was a static position, with the thighs parallel, and the back flat up against the wall.

We held it for one minute. Everyone hated it except for the three of us who had ma training. lol[/QUOTE]

One legged wall squats are awesome !
Good times.
Never did them in my time in wrestling, static bridges yes, but not any static stances.

31

horse stance is great for mounted archery!!!

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Oh and John Wang makes a good point for prolonged wrestling matches.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189146]That was the conclusion you drew from that? :confused:

Horse stance training is useless, as far as athletic performance is concerned, except for the specific things mentioned in post 4.[/QUOTE]

i hurt my back last week and i find doing horse stance helps me recover since it puts no stress on my back and pump my blood.

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IronFist and all whom do not believe that Horse (or any static stance training) stance has value in MA:

You guys are only thinking with horse blinders on. You can only see straight ahead and what your modern science can prove. You need to step back and take your blinders off.

Horse stance gives basic leg strength. For you modern guys, if you want more… do squats, sit on a leg press / bench etc etc.

Horse stance provides some flexibilty. Again if you want more… do other stretches.

Horse stance does provide some balance and more important ROOTING. Rooting is the ability to sink and lower your weight mass. Horse stance practice allows you to learn how to relax while stress in on your legs, thus allowing blood and body fluids to sink.

Horse stance builds good mental focus… However it was used to weed out people with bad character. Only those individuals who persisted with Horse stance were taken in as Todai or students. Those who had the guts, stubborness, and mental fortitude would go on to learn.

Hundreds of years ago while practicing… there some people who did not have weights (other than some rocks or stone locks) to use, so kung fu teachers used static stances and Dynamic or isometric tensions to help build strength.

Horse stance also teaches a type of structural postioning for certain techniques.

This is not to say that we as a modern society do not have other methods to build strength, however too many of you meatheads replace important kung fu drills with weight lifting. Getting stronger is good but not at the expense of skill and technique.

Remember that Horse stance training is just like running or push ups or hitting the heavy bags. They are all supplimental training and are second to solo and 2 person drills and sparring.

ginosifu

35

It is also important to note that horse stance training is not limited to only static stance holding. This is a misconception by many people, perpetuated by those same people who do not know there are many variations of stance training.

Do people actually believe that the squat is a new invention, and that it is not a part of horse stance training and stance training in general?? :rolleyes:

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[QUOTE=Lucas;1189215]It is also important to note that horse stance training is not limited to only static stance holding. This is a misconception by many people, perpetuated by those same people who do not know there are many variations of stance training.

Do people actually believe that the squat is a new invention, and that it is not a part of horse stance training and stance training in general?? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Nope, and people have been aware of the benefits of progressive resistance training for a long time. The current way of doing squats with weight is simply an improvement.

37

[QUOTE=Lucas;1189215]It is also important to note that horse stance training is not limited to only static stance holding. This is a misconception by many people, perpetuated by those same people who do not know there are many variations of stance training.

Do people actually believe that the squat is a new invention, and that it is not a part of horse stance training and stance training in general?? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Very true, YET the vast majority of posts in this thread and, lets be honest, the majority of horse stance training is static.

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Sorry Ironfist, but YOU are going to have to provide the science.
lol

I think that your attempt to diminish teh value of this training is weird.

as said, you do wall squats? why? what’s the point of those, they just make your wall squat better.

Of course you get better at it if you practice, that applies to EVERYTHING.
Of course it works your will because it is difficult and muscles are being worked.
Yes it develops strength early on and maintains it throughout your training.

Seriously, sometimes you talk out of your ass in favour of dang semantics. It’s ridicuous.

Bottom line is you will improve balance, strength and rooting and it will work your posterior chain including your hip flexors the same was as squats work em. You don’t think you go up and down in horse?

You young bucks always so quick to try to get people to turn away from stuff you don’t do. YOu get critical about things you have really no place criticizing. Why not try it for a year, come back and tell us what you know about sei ping dai ma after that?

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[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1189192]Yep, but that kind of endurance is valuable in a fight/competition.[/QUOTE]

Disagree. No one uses a horse stance in fighting for more than a brief moment maybe ducking under a punch or rising from the ground, etc.

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[QUOTE=ginosifu;1189213]IronFist and all whom do not believe that Horse (or any static stance training) stance has value in MA:

You guys are only thinking with horse blinders on. You can only see straight ahead and what your modern science can prove. You need to step back and take your blinders off.

Horse stance gives basic leg strength. For you modern guys, if you want more… do squats, sit on a leg press / bench etc etc.[/quote]

Quantify “basic leg strength.” What is it?

I already explained the “strength” you get from it in post 4.

Horse stance provides some flexibilty. Again if you want more… do other stretches.

What? No it doesn’t.

Horse stance does provide some balance and more important ROOTING. Rooting is the ability to sink and lower your weight mass. Horse stance practice allows you to learn how to relax while stress in on your legs, thus allowing blood and body fluids to sink.

Rooting is nonsense. “Allowing blood and body fluids to sink?” They’re only sinking because you’re lowering yourself and they’re physically getting lower as a result. In real life, when your blood and body fluids sink, it’s a medical emergency and you have to go to the hospital.

Horse stance builds good mental focus… However it was used to weed out people with bad character. Only those individuals who persisted with Horse stance were taken in as Todai or students. Those who had the guts, stubborness, and mental fortitude would go on to learn.

Sure, I’ll agree it builds mental focus.

Hundreds of years ago while practicing… there some people who did not have weights (other than some rocks or stone locks) to use, so kung fu teachers used static stances and Dynamic or isometric tensions to help build strength.

Absolutely. Something is better than nothing. Doing horse stance is better leg training than doing nothing.

I suspect hundreds of years ago they also did weightless body squats (sometimes called “Hindu squats”), but for some reason those got dropped out of popular kung fu training.

btw, Hindu squats are much more applicable to fighting than horse stance.

Horse stance also teaches a type of structural postioning for certain techniques.

I suppose, but you never use those techniques in an actual fight so it really doesn’t matter.

This is not to say that we as a modern society do not have other methods to build strength, however too many of you meatheads replace important kung fu drills with weight lifting. Getting stronger is good but not at the expense of skill and technique.

Nonense. The only way you get stronger “at the expense of skill and technique” is if you stop practicing skill and technique.

Remember that Horse stance training is just like running or push ups or hitting the heavy bags. They are all supplimental training and are second to solo and 2 person drills and sparring.

Right. It’s just that horse stance isn’t really a very good supplemental training method because, as stated in post 4, its only real benefit (past the first minute or two) is being able to hold a horse stance for longer.