Benefits of Horse Stance Training

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
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Found this list randomly and thought it would be nice to share. Now you can see why kung fu people always be having the sexy bodies and young looks. :smiley:

Horse stance training is strenuous and it takes time to develop the ability to stay in a horse stance for long periods of time. It requires dedication and perseverance on the part of the student to achieve a good horse stance. Nowadays most teachers are more relaxed and don’t require the same standards from their students, allowing them to quickly go on to learning other skills. This is understandable as most students do not have as much time to train now as they might have in years gone by, however by skimping on horse stance training there a many benefits which are missed. Below is a summary of just a few of them (there are more, but 10 sounded like a good number for a list). Even just a few minutes a day spent on horse stance training will go a long way towards helping you obtain these benefits.

  1. Improved posture

In the horse stance you weight is distributed evenly on both feet, you learn not to lean either to the left or right, forwards or backwards (this is quite difficult to begin with). Over time this allows all the muscles of the upper body to balance out and relax. Shoulders will be less hunched up and the body will not slouch). People with better posture are considered to be more attractive and having a balanced posture will mean that muscles are less prone to the aches and pains that come from overuse.

  1. Better balance

Developing the strength of your legs in this low upright posture improves balance remarkably. This means you are less likely to fall over and hurt yourself, and for martial artists it is harder for someone else to knock you over.

  1. Faster on your feet

Improved posture and balance mean that you are able to transfer your weight more easily and quickly. You will be able to move your feet more quickly and with more grace.

  1. Tone pelvic floor

The tucked under position of the pelvis in the horse stance means that load is placed on the muscle of the pelvic floor, causing the muscles to contract and increase in tone and strength. This helps to remedy issues such as poor bladder control and also contributes to the health of the prostate gland in males, leading to increased sexual vitality.

  1. Strengthens the transverses abdominus muscle

The transverses abdominus (TVA) muscle is the deepest layer of abdominal muscle. It is the layer that holds the abdominal organs in place and determines whether your tummy sticks out or remains flat. In the horse stance the load of the body sits down through the centre of the body in front of the spine. In order for the body to remain upright the TVA must contract to support this postion. This leads to a flatter stomach.

  1. Stronger more relaxed back

With the TVA muscle more toned and holding the abdominal organs in, the spinal column is supported from the front. This allows the muscle of the back, particularly the lower back to relax and become stronger. This will lead to a more upright posture and a stronger back. This in turn will make your back less prone to injury and may help to relieve aches and pains that have developed through poor posture, tension and weakness. For the martial artist this will also allow stronger and faster punches and kicks.

  1. Strengthen Kidney energy

When the lower back muscles relax this takes pressure off the kidneys and the nerves that supply them. This allows the kidneys to function more effectively and strengthens the whole kidney energy system which is also responsible for the strength of the spine and hormonal functions in the body (see numbers 6 and 8).

  1. Improved hormonal function

This posture strengthens the entire hormonal system including the sexual organs, adrenals, and thyroid. This leads to more energy, healthier hair, skin and nails and generally a more vital and resilient body.

  1. Develop Yang energy

The strenuous nature of the maintaining a low horse stance develops the yang energy in the body. This will help you to be more assertive, more energetic, stay warmer etc.

  1. Finally, with enough practice… you’ll never have to worry about finding a seat again!
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Anymore to list? I do horse stance about 5 minutes a day, for my iron leg training. I’ll get to doing more eventually though.

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Cool, I didn’t think about all of those benefits. :slight_smile:

Does it improve your ability to kill your enemies from horseback?

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Realistic benefits of horse stance training

  1. Improves will, focus, determination, and mental toughness

Holding a horse stance for long periods of time sucks and takes mental effort to do it.

  1. Provides a slight increase in muscular strength, in the beginning

Holding a horse stance will provide stimulation to your leg muscles in a certain position. Because of how muscular adaptation works, in the beginning you will become slightly stronger in this position (and possible +/- 15 degrees from that position). This is especially true for noobs who have done no exercising prior to beginning horse stance training. However the strength gains end quickly. For example, a noob going from no horse stance to a 3 minute horse stance will also result in a strength gain in the legs. However, increasing from a 5 minute horse stance to a 10 minute horse stance will not cause an increase in strength, nor will an increase from 10 minutes to an hour or whatever else the cool kids are doing these days.

  1. Increases the amount of time you can hold a horse stance

If being able to hold a horse stance for long periods of time is important to you, then you should train horse stance.

I can’t really think of any situations (outside of a kung fu class or competition) where the reason for someone failing at something was a result of not being able to hold a horse stance longer.

Is it important for kung fu? Absolutely.

Is it important for anything else? Not really.

I bet if you took world class Olympic lifters, sprinters, marathoners, boxers, UFC fighters, American football players, and baseball players, less than 5% of them could hold a horse stance for more than 5 minutes.

However, none of their performances would be improved even if they trained to hold a horse stance for 15+ minutes.

Horse stance is a bit like holding a pushup position at the bottom of the motion for time. You can do it, but why?

Outside of building mental toughness and being traditional, it doesn’t really have a purpose past a few minutes.

But if you enjoy it, by all means, keep doing it. I’m not trying to say anyone is wrong or that they shouldn’t do it, only to provide people with information so that they can tailor their training to their goals.

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the main purpose of horse stance in modern kung fu is brainwashing, making your students tired and in pain so they will be more susceptible to your messages.

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horse stance is good punishment

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Horse stance, and all zhan zhuang is very enjoyable and refreshing if you relax mentally and physically.

I was taught that you get maximum benefits if you follow the three golden rules of stance training.

Relax
Relax
Relax

:smiley:

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when i wrote the curriculum for my school i capped stance training at a total of 16 minutes for ‘black sash’ level: 8 stances, 1 minute each side (arm postures diff for horse) 16 total minutes.

for white sash, a student had to hit each posture in the progression for a beat…5 seconds at yellow…don’t remember the rest of the progression in time but ending in the above

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Horse stance develops your Hip Flexors.
If you don’t think that helps your kicking, you likely don’t know much about the human body.

dang it you guys, try and educate yourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_flexors

will power development? ssshhhheeeiit man, just stay away from the ice cream and beer you fat slob. lol
:stuck_out_tongue:

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[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1189072]Horse stance develops your Hip Flexors.
If you don’t think that helps your kicking, you likely don’t know much about the human body.

dang it you guys, try and educate yourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_flexors

will power development? ssshhhheeeiit man, just stay away from the ice cream and beer you fat slob. lol
:p[/QUOTE]

From the link you posted:

In human anatomy, the hip flexors are a group of skeletal muscles that act to flex the femur (thigh bone) onto the lumbo-pelvic complex, i.e., pull the knee upward.

That’s the opposite of what is going on in horse stance. The hip flexors pull the knee upward against force. In horse stance, your muscles are actively resisting the knee being pulled upward (eg. you releasing tension in your quads and falling onto the ground). The hip flexors are antagonistic in squatting/horse stance/etc.

The only way horse stance is using your hip flexors is if there’s a rubber band around your butt that is connected to the ceiling that is pulling you upward and you’re using your hip flexors to pull your hips down.

You’re right that hip flexors are involved in kicks, though. It’s how you lift your leg to kick. But horse stance training doesn’t use them. And even if it did, holding a static muscular contraction for time doesn’t really increase power as explained in post 4.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189102]From the link you posted:

That’s the opposite of what is going on in horse stance. The hip flexors pull the knee upward against force. In horse stance, your muscles are actively resisting the knee being pulled upward (eg. you releasing tension in your quads and falling onto the ground). The hip flexors are antagonistic in squatting/horse stance/etc.

The only way horse stance is using your hip flexors is if there’s a rubber band around your butt that is connected to the ceiling that is pulling you upward and you’re using your hip flexors to pull your hips down.

You’re right that hip flexors are involved in kicks, though. It’s how you lift your leg to kick. But horse stance training doesn’t use them. And even if it did, holding a static muscular contraction for time doesn’t really increase power as explained in post 4.[/QUOTE]

So…resistance training is useless? Is that what you’re saying?

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[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1189104]So…resistance training is useless? Is that what you’re saying?[/QUOTE]

That was the conclusion you drew from that? :confused:

Horse stance training is useless, as far as athletic performance is concerned, except for the specific things mentioned in post 4.

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If you wrestle for 15 rounds and each round has no time limit (sometime a round can last for an hour), you will feel the importance of your horse stance. In wrestling, you always keep both of your legs bend.

http://imageshack.us/a/img51/8762/scposture.jpg

If you can’t move smoothly in that leg bending posture, your legs will feel tired. The moment that you straight your leg, the moment that your center of gravity will raise, the moment that your opponent will attack.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189146]That was the conclusion you drew from that? :confused:

Horse stance training is useless, as far as athletic performance is concerned, except for the specific things mentioned in post 4.[/QUOTE]

Do you even do a horse stance at all? It totally develops quads, hip flexors and the posterior chain.

Are you a kinesiologist? Or are you making assumptions and guessing according to your own frame of reference?

You also go on to say holding a push up is useless? Honestly? ths is called Chataranga in Yoga. It is a form of isotonic and isometric resistance?

I disagree with your position here. I don’t think you train this or fully understand it enough to make attempts at diminishing the training.

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The law of Specificity states that the more you do an activity, the better you get at doing that activity.
While there may be some carryover to other activities, that carryover will not be as much as any direct training of they other activity.
Horse stance does indeed strength your legs and hips, and even your core.
The more you do a horse stance, the better you get at doing a horse stance.
The Time under load of a horse stance will build muscle endurance BUT not any “pure strength” BUT your legs and hips will get stronger of course.

Will doing a horse stance for 30 min make your legs stronger? Yes.
Will it make them stronger than doings squats with progressive resistance for example? No.
The ability to hold ANY static position is a combination of muscle endurance AND correct structure.
Holding a horse stance for 30 min will not enable you to hold a crane stance for 30 min or even a front (bow) stance for 30 min, the muscles involved and structures are different.

Are there benefits from doing horse stance training? Of course.
Do they carry over to every day activities? Yes, to a certain extent.
Does doing a horse stance make you a better fighter or MA? of course not.
Does horse stance training serve a purpose in MA training? Yes, just nothing directly related to fighting.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189146]That was the conclusion you drew from that? :confused:

Horse stance training is useless, as far as athletic performance is concerned, except for the specific things mentioned in post 4.[/QUOTE]
Forget it you are banging your head against a brick wall lol

you have got to love these technical discussions with people like who cant stand being told something different to what they believe and who dont have any real knowledge of the subject lol

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1189146]That was the conclusion you drew from that? :confused:

Horse stance training is useless, as far as athletic performance is concerned, except for the specific things mentioned in post 4.[/QUOTE]

Stance training has benefits. People who have held stances for time and made increases over several months usually realize how weak their legs were before they started training.

Besides…it helped my skiing.

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[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1189175]Stance training has benefits. People who have held stances for time and made increases over several months usually realize how weak their legs were before they started training.

Besides…it helped my skiing.[/QUOTE]

Typically yes, but there is a disclaimer for this and that is, again, specificity.
Unless one has been training something like a horse stance, he/she will ALWAYS be weaker doing it than someone that has.
Weak legs in hose stance compared to someone that does hose stance all the time, is, well, irrelevant other than for doing a horse stance.
I don’t do much horse stance training anymore, but when I do it I hold if for 10 min and I am sure there are guys that can hold it for far more.
But we do need to compare apples with apples and here is an example:
A guy that can squat 400lbs will probably not be able to hold a horse stance very long if he has never trained to do it compared to a guy that doe sit all that time, BUT does that mean his legs are weak?
A 400lbs squat means NO, his legs are most certainly NOT weak.
I ask you this, how many guys do you know that can hold a 20 min HS? and how much can they squat?

It is not a case of one being better than the other, just that training a specific posture and being able to hold it, doesn’t mean much OUTSIDE doing just that.

19

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1189178]Typically yes, but there is a disclaimer for this and that is, again, specificity.
Unless one has been training something like a horse stance, he/she will ALWAYS be weaker doing it than someone that has.
Weak legs in hose stance compared to someone that does hose stance all the time, is, well, irrelevant other than for doing a horse stance.
I don’t do much horse stance training anymore, but when I do it I hold if for 10 min and I am sure there are guys that can hold it for far more.
But we do need to compare apples with apples and here is an example:
A guy that can squat 400lbs will probably not be able to hold a horse stance very long if he has never trained to do it compared to a guy that doe sit all that time, BUT does that mean his legs are weak?
A 400lbs squat means NO, his legs are most certainly NOT weak.
I ask you this, how many guys do you know that can hold a 20 min HS? and how much can they squat?

It is not a case of one being better than the other, just that training a specific posture and being able to hold it, doesn’t mean much OUTSIDE doing just that.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

I think that you are correct regarding the specificity, however I think horse stance training carries over to OTHER stance training more that you implied with your previous post, since they are very similar.

I was wrestling during my beginning stance training years and noticed an improvement in my leg strength/endurance, so i found it helpful for ‘fighting’ or, rather, competing in my case.

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[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1189164]Do you even do a horse stance at all? It totally develops quads, hip flexors and the posterior chain.[/quote]

Horse stance works the hip flexors about as much as barbell curls work the triceps.

Are you a kinesiologist? Or are you making assumptions and guessing according to your own frame of reference?

Whether I’m a kinesiologist or not has no bearing on the correctness of what I say. You were disproven by your own wikipedia link.

You also go on to say holding a push up is useless? Honestly? ths is called Chataranga in Yoga. It is a form of isotonic and isometric resistance?

How does it existing in yoga have anything to do with this discussion? Holding a static pushup is useless as far as MA is concerned and as far as strength development is concerned.

I disagree with your position here. I don’t think you train this or fully understand it enough to make attempts at diminishing the training.

Then use science to disprove what I said in post 4 rather than just posting what you think. FWIW, I also used to train horse stance daily years and years ago. I thought it was giving me all these benefits, but really all it was doing was letting me hold horse stance longer.

Horse stance training will make you better at horse stance training. The carryover into maximal strength is minimal (as described in post 4). The carryover into endurance is minimal. Once you get past holding horse stance for a certain point (most likely a minute or two), the only benefit you continue to gain is the ability to hold a horse stance longer (and I will agree that there are some mental toughness benefits that come with it).

To the person who said it improved their skiing, I can see that happening because your skiing posture is probably within +/- 15 degrees or so of horse stance posture and the ability to hold it longer may have some carryover into your skiing stability.