This question goes out to the TCMA’s here who train in a system of Kung Fu that maintains a belt/sash ranking system. In your opinion, do you believe it is necessary to have this system in your style. Traditionally speaking they did not and most of us know belt ranks were for the most part an Americanized standard, but please give your opinions on why or why not they are needed. Thanks.
run a shop? yes, have them they are useful milestones and help to organize curriculum.
run a private session group? they are not necessary.
I find that schools need them. you have a lot of people that if they don’t have a focus and a goal that is cultural contextual then it can become chaos and difficult to deal with.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1027849]run a shop? yes, have them they are useful milestones and help to organize curriculum.
run a private session group? they are not necessary.
I find that schools need them. you have a lot of people that if they don’t have a focus and a goal that is cultural contextual then it can become chaos and difficult to deal with.[/QUOTE]
I run a sport school, but not everyone competes. So, essentially, unless they are focused on the training or some fitness goal, a lot of them tend to lose interest after a month or two because they aren’t working toward anything in particular.
In that regard, I think a ranking system helps traditional schools keep students focused by providing achievable goals, which in turn keeps them interested in training.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1027853]I run a sport school, but not everyone competes. So, essentially, unless they are focused on the training or some fitness goal, a lot of them tend to lose interest after a month or two because they aren’t working toward anything in particular.
In that regard, I think a ranking system helps traditional schools keep students focused by providing achievable goals, which in turn keeps them interested in training.[/QUOTE]
It’s a good point.
No goals = loss of interest
something as simple as a piece of cloth and the requirements for getting it can really spur a person on.
even though you have a sport school, you can separate your fight team from the regular t-shirt seekers and give them goals through textile awards!
Lot’s of people identify with status markers. Belts serve as that too.
If you use maintenance programs, you can always have people struggle to maintain rank like hardcore japanese schools do. lol
you could always go with the nascar approach and give people those badges to sew all over their stuff. lol The nascar Gi rules!
Good question, I have been kicking this one around for a while. I remember in my karate days, I did enjoy receiving my next belt. It made you feel good, gave you a goal to shoot for and stroked your ego. That being said, judging from the prices that a lot of schools are charging to test for your next belt/sash, and seeing the way some schools award belts/sashes to people that don’t deserve or earn them, it is just a way for most places to make more money. At the last school I attended years back, I was testing for my brown belt, the lower belts had to go first. I saw some **** poor examples of kung fu, even people who had forgotten part of their forms or froze in the middle and still they passed.
In its simplest forms the only way a school can make money is through it’s monthly tuition. Schools have taken this to new heights now adays with belt tests, charging extra fees to learn more material, like black sash clubs or master paths. Some of the fees charged are really exhorbitant. It has really gotten out of hand. Frankly, I am amazed that people can even afford to attend some of these schools. Now I am not saying that all schools that do this are bad in anyway, there are a lot of schools out there that do charge fair prices but I believe that the bottom line of this question lies in the revenue stream.
I do believe a goal to work towards is a positive factor concerning belts. I know when I tested under my Sifu the tests were a rigorous ordeal of everything you had learned up to that point, as well as hard sparring with all classmates, instructors, and anyone else pretty much invited to the test, which usually consisted of black belts from other systems. If you passed, you certainly had a sense of pride and accomplishment, that you had “earned” you rank. This can go a long way in developing one’s martial arts.
my personal opinion is NO! belts have no place in gung fu. but, commercialism calls right??? i do certificates if they really want…a ranking system was never employed at all in my teachers school.
The belt system is idiotic and loathsome. You’re just buying belts. I go to a wushu school in Houston, no belt system there, the motivation lies in how far you want to go in wushu, not by what color you want your belt.
ming army sparring ranking system: win a fight promote one level. lose a fight demote one level. lose five or more in a row beat with stick and expel
we shud use that one
If the belt systems MEANS something then it is useful.
Belts for the sake of belts is pointless.
[QUOTE=bawang;1027868]ming army sparring ranking system: win a fight promote one level. lose a fight demote one level. lose five or more in a row beat with stick and expel
we shud use that one[/QUOTE]
what he said
[QUOTE=zhugeliang;1027867]The belt system is idiotic and loathsome. You’re just buying belts. I go to a wushu school in Houston, no belt system there, the motivation lies in how far you want to go in wushu, not by what color you want your belt.[/QUOTE]
The thing is there are systems where you are not just “buying” your belt. Believe it or not, some schools that use the belt system don’t even charge for the test or the belt, maybe for the price of the sash (Gene sells them for like 7 bucks. :D) The point is, if the ranking system is done correctly, fairly, and with an intent on the person earning it and giving them a goal to continue to develop their skills, it can be useful.
your reward for the years of training are the skills that you can preform not a piece of cloth you can tie around your waist.
I never saw the point of belts i think they are an entirely trivial concept
If the belt systems MEANS something then it is useful.
it is ONLY useful for the commercial school to keep students. I’ve known 3rd degree blackbelts who were holy terrors in the studio. but out on the street they freeze, crumble, stutter, and lose all focus when confronted in the street. i’ve witnessed this and was left disappointed.
i hate belt ranks, especially when for the right price my 12 year old nephew can become a black belt.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1027848]This question goes out to the TCMA’s here who train in a system of Kung Fu that maintains a belt/sash ranking system. In your opinion, do you believe it is necessary to have this system in your style. Traditionally speaking they did not and most of us know belt ranks were for the most part an Americanized standard, but please give your opinions on why or why not they are needed. Thanks.:)[/QUOTE]
these are arbitary “standards”.
usually, we have basic/beginner/foundation, intermediate, and advance.
how to define the 3 levels depending on the style and teacher.
- foundation level, they are not to be mistaken for “easy”.
from day 1 to day whenever, everyone has to practice. it is your root.
-
intermediate, based on level 1 with some specialization
-
advance, specialization for fewer themes.
in ba ji;
-
xiao jia
-
da jia
-
lian huan
etc
white, yellow and black belts
they ususally are connected with your sparring system
1 if you use some basic moves well and fight with them,
you advance.
2 if you use some intermediate moves and spar
- if you use some advance moves and spar well
there are also oral exams and written tests on understanding of theories and practice
sometimes black belt needs to write a proposal, research and thesis.
again depending on your school and teacher.
the sparring exam/contest
you are required to do at least one of the moves from your level and successfully defeat your opponent.
unfourtunately
in wushu performance circle
you are only required to do these moves in your routine. no worry in using it successfully or not.
there are duan systems in long fist and other wushu routines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20STXG_mg10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeOtlFv3lDk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQvPDHTlI8
Of course they’re needed!
How else am I going to sell all these **** belts?! 
Seriously, anyone who has gotten my personal tour of our CA facility knows my fav belt from the ‘aisle of belts’ section of our warehouse.
At the school where I currently train, O-Mei Kung Fu, we have a sash system for the kids. The adults in our Shaolin class, our kickboxing class and our tai chi class do not do belts. I only earned two belts in my life: a yellow belt in judo when I was 8 and a kyu ranking (not quite a belt) in kendo. The PRC has the duan system, but I don’t participate in that.
spam spam spam…I call spam… I think we need some more spam in here.
