Had some good news this week, I’, going in for my next grading soon.This one feels like more of an achievement after coming back from back problems which were affecting my training for over a month, then I was off completely for 2 months .I have been back for about 2 months now and trying to catch up with everyone!
I became a bit obsessed with grades, and the fact that my bf has jumped one ahead of me now,as he raded while I was off. However, just recently I have come to realise that the grading system and sashes are really quite irrelevant. Is it just a western thing that we like to be rewarded and to show other people where we stand/a hierarchy in schools?
Personally before I started kf I always did activities that had rewards with different leves and exams, rewards etc.
What are other peoples feelings towards gradings/sashes etc?
Im glad that I have finally realised that they arent important, as it has let me focus more on what I am actually doing.Its good to have something to work towards, but its kind of changing me as a person too, which is a good thing!
Belts/Sashes are good for one thing…
A belt or a sash is only good for holding your pants up. My contention with belts/sashes is that most people care more about them then their actual skill. That, and the system is easily corruptible (good schools can turn into belt factories).
Well, sashes were used to keep people’s pants up cause that’s what they used instead of belts.
Color sashes for rank is a new invention in CMA
My understanding of TCM is that there are no belts to distinguish between rank or skill, you are basically part of a family or brotherhood/sisterhood of a group. Whoever starts before you is considered senior above you, regardless of how slow they learn and absorb the material and how fast you do. Most Traditional Chinese Sifu’s will teach you something new when they feel you’ve accomplished and mastered the basic skills, whether it be horse stance, punching, kicking, etc.
Patience, dedication, commitment and hard work are all a virtue of Kung Fu, while the belts and grading/ranking system, as everyone said, is used to hold your pants up. 
The Sash
Actualy the Sash is very important, it works just like a weight belt that body builders used.
Since we do a lot of low stances in Kung Fu it is important to wear a sash so you don’t bust a gut.
hernias are very comon and the sash helps prevent that. As far as colors are concerned that’s ok to as long as that is not your main focus. Even in the military you have rank.
As long as rank is earned there’s nothing wrong with it.
Once you have been burnt on belt sashes, there’s no returning back. I.E. if you lessen their meaning, you will destroy their use.,
It’s the person’s kung fu, not belt, that counts. If you put faith into a belt then you are missing the picture. It’s like the Bruce Lee line in Enter the Dragon, “Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.”
True that, not all schools are created equal. In my Kwoon we have colors but that’s so I can keep track of who’s on what. If I just taught a few students than I would do a way with ranking and keep in mind in my Kwoon it takes ten years to achieve a Black sash.
I’m sure it’s easy to figure out a belt factory school over a hard core school.
The thing is that belt systems often appeal to egos. I mean let’s be honest, when someone gets a sash is he any better then he was the day before? However, that person often feels that way. The color worn around the waist becomes the paramount concern. But when push comes to shove, how do they know that a lower rank won’t wipe the floor with them in a fight. Perhaps the higher rank does more of the system but maybe what the lower rank does know, he does better. It becomes harmful to progress when belts are what’s important. Many people fall into that trap because of ego.
[QUOTE=Green Cloud;706529]Actualy the Sash is very important, it works just like a weight belt that body builders used.
Since we do a lot of low stances in Kung Fu it is important to wear a sash so you don’t bust a gut.
hernias are very comon and the sash helps prevent that. As far as colors are concerned that’s ok to as long as that is not your main focus. Even in the military you have rank.
As long as rank is earned there’s nothing wrong with it.[/QUOTE]
Mr/Sifu Green Cloud,
That’s interesting take, since I’ve never heard of getting a hernia by doing low stance work in Kung Fu? Not saying its wrong, but I’ve always believed low stance work was putting most of the stress on your legs to build and strengthen them up? In a sense, I guess you are tightening up the abs and while doing so, keeping your back straight, but I just don’t see how it could bust a gut?? Coming from a Chinese background, I was always told the belt was used to hold your pants up and as my mom puts it, to keep the poor starving chinese people from being hungry by “closing up the empty space.”
I know, mom’s old wives tales
[QUOTE=us0kch;706542]Mr/Sifu Green Cloud,
That’s interesting take, since I’ve never heard of getting a hernia by doing low stance work in Kung Fu? Not saying its wrong, but I’ve always believed low stance work was putting most of the stress on your legs to build and strengthen them up? In a sense, I guess you are tightening up the abs and while doing so, keeping your back straight, but I just don’t see how it could bust a gut?? Coming from a Chinese background, I was always told the belt was used to hold your pants up and as my mom puts it, to keep the poor starving chinese people from being hungry by “closing up the empty space.”
I know, mom’s old wives tales[/QUOTE]
I’ll say that it’s wrong. That’s wrong dude.
Your sash isn’t even tied around your body in the correct position to stop you from getting a hernia.
You get a hernia in two ways.
- You’ve had a weekness in your abdominal wall your whole life and something happens, could be as simple as a sneeze, that triggers the abdominal wall to rupture.
- Straining from lifting or moving weight improperly.
I don’t think holding low stances cause the kind of straining to cause a hernia.
Also,
Comparing a sash to a weight belt is totaly in-accurate. Many people wear weight belts to protect their abdominal wall while lifting. In recent years, weight belts have fallen out of favor because they allow people to actually lift with poor form. IMO, if you can’t lift a weight without a weight belt, then you can lift that weight.
A sash holds your pants up. A colored sash pads your ego.
Sash tests are lame.
[QUOTE=us0kch;706542]Mr/Sifu Green Cloud,
That’s interesting take, since I’ve never heard of getting a hernia by doing low stance work in Kung Fu? Not saying its wrong, but I’ve always believed low stance work was putting most of the stress on your legs to build and strengthen them up? In a sense, I guess you are tightening up the abs and while doing so, keeping your back straight, but I just don’t see how it could bust a gut?? Coming from a Chinese background, I was always told the belt was used to hold your pants up and as my mom puts it, to keep the poor starving chinese people from being hungry by “closing up the empty space.”
I know, mom’s old wives tales[/QUOTE]
I don’t dissagree with you or Xia but the with of the belt is designed to keep the organs in place and the back strait, especialy when doing Dynamic tension stuff just like weight lifting. BTW I have had two hernias while training.
As far as rank is concerned it doesn’t make you better it’s just a sighn of achievement. There nothing wrong with acknowledging someones efforts as long as the belt is worn around the waist and not the head.
Humility is very important.
one of my old Shrfu’s did discuss the importance of the sash in terms of what it does for you during training. I can’t remember the details anymore (I know I’m a bad student) but I had thought it had something to do with keeping organs in the right place. As is often the case, I could be wrong, but that seems to be in line with what Shrfu GreenCloud was mentioning.
Insofar as rank, I agree that it gives one a sense of accomplishment, and that can be useful for motivation. There is no doubt, however, that the color sash ranking system is not “traditional,” and is a tool that relatively modern instructors use. so getting back to the original question, I’d say that that one should concentrate on training; if you’re training in a good place, the rank will come as you progress just as in any other MA that uses ranking systems.
[QUOTE=Green Cloud;706529]Actualy the Sash is very important, it works just like a weight belt that body builders used.
Since we do a lot of low stances in Kung Fu it is important to wear a sash so you don’t bust a gut.
hernias are very comon and the sash helps prevent that. As far as colors are concerned that’s ok to as long as that is not your main focus. Even in the military you have rank.
As long as rank is earned there’s nothing wrong with it.[/QUOTE]
??? KF sashes are very flimsy. I never heard the thing about hernias before. ???
Anyway, like somebody said, hierarchy has always been very important in KF. Older brother, uncle, sifu, stuff like that.
ok, sorry about that, by the time I finished typing, GreenCloud has already finished his post . . .
[QUOTE=Green Cloud;706549]BTW I have had two hernias while training.
[/QUOTE]
??? What are you doing that you get hernias? I’ve never heard of this before. ???
belts
what happens when a lower sash/belt beats a higher sash/belt in a fight or form competition?
My thought is there should be only 2 sashes grey and black and they should really only delineate those who have earned gong fu and can begin to teach or those who are still learning and trying to earn their gong fu. And should not define ability or competance or respect line unless it is Master to student line. Make sense???
yes . . . makes sense.
Getting into a discussion about whether or not MA should use color ranking systems, however, does not make sense. Some people think so and others don’t. What we can say though, is that traditionally Chinese martial arts did not have this ranking system, so matter how many student. Again: NOT passing judgement, cause I think its always dependant on the instructor. The bottom line is that there is no governing authority on all martial arts, so no one is going to come up with and incorporate the definitive answer
belts
The reason I am thinking this is I have been in a lot of fights and know I can pumel at least 3 Shifu/ balck sahes in my school who have never really been in a fight but have the rank. I have also beaten them in forms competition as well. So a lower belt beat a higher belt. What does this mean??
Maxwang, I’d say go to another school . . .