david J and others.
I agree that the latter is more powerful than a snap chambered kick. just kick a heavy bag and you will see. I kick very hard ,so hard that I have to use my shin or I hurt my ankle. I am 6’2 ,251 lbs and love to cripple.
However, when I was learning how to kick form my karate sensei (Victor vega’s student), he would strees that you should NEVER drop your guard to compensate for what you will at first think is more power. When we learn to punch we think if you wind up you will generate power but as we now understand this is not true. But ask a untrained fighter which generates more power.
its like asking a untraied fighter where the power from a punch comes from, they might say the soulder or the waist but we also know this is untrue. so as your level of understanding kinetics or power of jing come from the more you understand compensation of any kind to make up for loss of balance is a bad habit.
Judge. I knew a Korean tae kwon do 10 degree BB that could kick a hole in a cinder block with his side kick. but when he kicked he would keep his hands in the up guard postion which is correct!
however when he first taught his students in his controlled environment at class time he would tell them to snap the arm down straight to the side of the body for better aligment.
such is the sport of kicking and real life situations. they differ emencely
It’s merely a trade off - more power, less balance, less balance, more power. as stated, dropping the hand really isn’t a big issue. the body is angled out of the way of the most common counter attack aimed at the face, and the rear hand is covering the face in the absence of the lead hand. If you are THAT concerned about swinging the arm back, then keep the hand outward instead of downward. This has an alternate application of allowing you to get someone in a side plam if desired / necessary.
I first roundhouse kick I learned was in Karate. There was no chambering, just swinging the rear leg around. Roundhouse kick is like a roundhouse punch. It swings wide and comes in from the side, preferably at the fringe of eyesight.
To generate power we were told to follow the kick with the whole body. We did not twist the upper body in the opposite direction. Everything went in the direction of the kick. If it missed you had to continue around because there was no way to stop once committed. It took awhile to get rid of the natural reaction to twist.
Since then I’ve learned different ways including chambering it like a front kick but twisting it out at the last minute. Definitely much weaker IMO but faster and more deceptive.
Rear leg roundhouse is a power move, slow with whole body behind it. Good move if you’re big and you can blast through even if blocked. Because it’s slow it needs a really good setup. More of a finishing move, rock him with some punches then kick his head off. I think a lot of times it’s used incorrectly.
Seems to me like twisting the upper body in the opposite direction would help maintain balance but subtract from the generated power. I haven’t done any MT training yet so I’ll reserve judgement. I know they can kick awfully hard.
My teacher eats my lunch with a low teep everytime I try to throw this kick on him. In your experience is that a more effective counter to the MT roundhouse? Granted my skill level and speed are much below my teacher, but I stopped using this kick on him because of it. I don’t have the same problem with a CMA type roundhouse, as the chamber guards my lower body as I exectue the kick.
yeah, definitely - any medium to long range, straight line technique is a good counter to it - it completely kills all the momentum you generated for the kick.
recently, one of my students told me he was watching some fight - I’ll ask him which venue if he’s there tonight - and he said a guy got KOed by getting hit with a cross because he threw a roundhouse without stepping out first.
when I kick “Muay Thai” style, focus is in the shin bone. …targets include shin, thigh, ribs, head
when I snap kick focus is in the ball of the foot… targets face and ribs
when I sweep kick focus is in the tarcel area… targets include ankle shin, ribs, thigh
all these are in the same system, however when I do any of these kicks
MY HADS ARE PROTECTING MY FACE!
never do you drop your guard to make up for loss of balance , more momentum or more power.’
you may think and at first;feel like you have more power when you **** the arm to counter however all you have to do is miss and get hit and youwill realize like I have said all along this is a bad habit to drop your hands from your face.
You aren’t kicking Muay Thai style then. You are saying that the way an entire style teaches a paticular kick is incorrect. How long do we want to ride the merry-go-round?
seven star
wow I didnt think conversation was pointless to discuss?
as it seems alot of poeple do this. I thought we were getting somewhere in the basics of kicking fundementals. seems people have not understood this.
judge P.
Please stop saying i think the world of MT is wrong. i know several MT that i asked in the last 3 days and they laughed when i said are you taught to drop the arm when you kick?
they answerd only when they feel like being hit! so NO! …MT guys are not taught as you said to drop the arm to the side.
mind you my one friend fights in thailand ,indonesia and malaysia. so I think he is a great resource for information.
conversation is always a good thing. But when you insist that an entire system is wrong, communication breaks down.
judge P.
Please stop saying i think the world of MT is wrong. i know several MT that i asked in the last 3 days and they laughed when i said are you taught to drop the arm when you kick?
they answerd only when they feel like being hit! so NO! …MT guys are not taught as you said to drop the arm to the side.
mind you my one friend fights in thailand ,indonesia and malaysia. so I think he is a great resource for information.
Actually, yes they are. I’ve been asking around too. It’s like I posted yesterday - a variation is to swing the hand outward instead of downward. These guys have fought in thailand, denmark and various other countries. Also, watch some thai fights and notice what the hand position looks like…
please post the part where I said all MT is WRONG!!! please dont insult my intelligence. I have been doing MA for way to many years.
Ok follow me on this one OK?
you do speak of a controlled environment correct? this is a MT ring. My boy in malaysia made a point to say MT is a sport and a “you kick, I kick” exchange is a given respect. So given this, in the MT world is it safe to say each fighter respects the other and sometimes when they are kicking will one not attack out of the respect? and almost see if the others kicks are effective and copmpare to that of themselves?
on a different note you are telling me tha all MT guys are purposly taught to drop thier gurad everytime they kick???
“you kick, I kick” is normal. As I’ve said 34958435435 times, when the hand drops, the rear covers it. your face is NOT exposed. The hand dropping or moving IS taught, yes.
…
again using the arm for counter balance is a BAD habit! better balance within the kicker is all that is needed. this is sloppy but I guess it depends on what level your are in your training.
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I realise that when describing the roundouse kick as I originally learned it (old habits die hard) I didn’t mention that the hands were never dropped. I have a pet peeve about peeps dropping their hands when they kick, most notably pulling them down with a front/heel kick.
However I do like the idea of using the other hand to cover the face. Will have to look into that and watch a few MT fights. I have the hands up ingrained into me though from too many years.
Good discussion if it doesn’t breakdown into hollering and name calling. Fighting is ok, just no name calling. And no mothers.
BTW, bad hand dropping is a good thing if you’re playing poker.
would you then say both hands covering the face would double your chances of not being hit? place answer here______________
with that being said would you agree that a good habit WOULD be to keep both hands up? place answer here_______________________
with that being sad and you were teaching people to fight would you teach them to keep their hands up so as not to risk being hit in the face or drop the hand? place answer here_________________________-
no worries just wanted to make a point.
everyone is entitled to thier opinon but I teach fighting and used to fight full contact so I always stress protecting the vital points and getting hit or kicked in the face hurts alot. and when I would see my opponent either telegraphing thier moves or DROPPING thier hand when they kicked I would wait until they kicked and knock the living $ hit out of them. try protecting the face with one hand againt a kick.
so as a rule DONT DROP YOUR HAND WHEN YOU KICK!!!
it’s all a matter of timing right?
