So we were discussing what to do with the hands when you throw a Thai kick. The two main ideas seem to be:
(assuming a left front stance)
crank your right arm back as you turn your hips over. This allows for much more power but leaves you kind of exposed. You still have your back and up there blocking.
Leave both hands up in the guard position. This leaves you safer to counter attacks but cuts power.
Proponents of the first way say “who cares if your hand drops down? You’re kicking so freaking hard that it doesn’t matter cuz anyone who gets in the way is going to drop anyway.”
Proponents of the second way say "leaving your left hand up there like that isn’t going to block crap. You’re going to eat whatever punch comes through.
For me? I was taught the first way. I feel like I can’t get much power if I don’t drop my right hand down, but I feel like my left hand wouldn’t block much anyway, so I try to practice it both ways.
i know this isn’t what we are discussing, but i also keep my standing leg bent just a little and try to keep my kicking leg parallel to the ground. however, i was taught by a guy who was also into traditional styles so he might have had his own reasons for having me do it this way. most people i see throwing thai’s are doing it exactly like you are in your pics.
Originally posted by IronFist
Proponents of the first way say “who cares if your hand drops down? You’re kicking so freaking hard that it doesn’t matter cuz anyone who gets in the way is going to drop anyway.”
Actually, we say “Who cares if your right hand drops? Your left hand is still covering your face.”
Proponents of the second way say "leaving your left hand up there like that isn’t going to block crap. You’re going to eat whatever punch comes through.
News to me. I’ve blocked many a punch with my left while kicking.
Your form looks pretty decent, Iron. You should move your left hand further over to your right, though. Your hands should move like you’re turning a giant steering wheel to the right.
I was always taught to keep my guard up. From my personal experience while sparring and pad feeding, the kick can be interupted from a well timed punch. Of course, if it’s not well timed, you could be limping from the kick :).
After continually being trained to never drop my guard, I naturally keep it up at all times, it’s just programed into me
It think counter rotation is bad for a round kick. You could be doing a leading rotation with the body into the round with as much power.
And, depending on the kick being a crushing fight ender is betting to high on a variable that might backfire on you. Keep your guard up until your opponent is down.
do it this way, do it that way, it works for me so it must work for you…etc etc.
Here’s how you can try it.
why not get into a ring and fight? See what works for you.
Unless maybe you could go to the xma place and have them measure your force in different ways for kicking and then you don’t need to fight cause well, the numbers speak for themselves right?
everyone knows the force measurement machine is the real state of the art when it comes to telling if you are a bad @ss or not.
for me personally, I do not drop the lead simply because it opens your head. Don’t think your leg can’t be hooked and your ears boxed.
Camp 2, many times when I throw a low roundhouse to the leg with my arm down for more momentum, the more momentum I will recieve from the punch coming to my face. It is a hard habit to keep your hands up, but trying sparring with an experienced boxer who knows kickboxing and it won’t be that hard to learn a new habit that will be good for you.
My thai boxing trainer had me kick like in the pic. Except he was really picky with the fact of keeping the left in front of my face. When you do the round kick you should be a little out of range for a face punch. Unless you opponent is really lunging forward you won’t eat a “hard” punch. This is true especially with leg kicks. You keep the left in front for extra protection
You were taught the correct method in as they teach it in thailand. and there are usually two options.
the full slice (which you are doing in your pic) and the 1/2 slice which the same side arm doesn’t swing back as far. the elbow will come back and the hand will not go past your side. keeping both hands up is a form of this but it’s my personal belief that it sacrifices power in favor of better defense. both hands up when kicking low seems practical.
and as you already know the counter rotation is nessecary to generate the power because it opens up your hip for the power and keeps you balanced when swinging the kick with great force. you don’t “turn the giant wheel” and your hips will not open and you will have no power. or you’ll have to lean back and be seriously off balance.
Can you imagine how easily this guy would be put on his ass if his upper body were in line with his hips?
I think the guard position and hand actions will vary depending on the what and whys of the kick.
For example, if you are following up a hand, elbow or knee combo or some such, or big push or trip or if you or he wrench your way out of a clinch hold or tie-up, you might “follow-up” with “bigger” arm-swinging kicks. If you are at very close range (for kicks) or are using the kick as a single attack or in combo, then the more defensive hand type stuff needs to go on like shooting the hands (at least the lead) towards the opponent or “sweeping” or covering or some such.
I also think in general its a bad idea to consistently use the same hand motions with the same footwork or leg motions. Eventually someone picks up on those types of habits and starts firing crosses and other hurtful things into your face.
As far as “Thai Boxing” goes, the opponent is more likely to counter with kicks and knees then most other things, more MMA type venues will probably have more boxing hand and takedown counters. IMO.
Hard to tell from your snapshots, but I think you should be pointing your toes when you make contact. (Like pointing your toes “up” or towards your knees or nose or something.)
crank your right arm back as you turn your hips over. This allows for much more power but leaves you kind of exposed. You still have your back and up there blocking.
And that back hand is all you need.
Excellent pics. It’s a shame the table is blocking the view. I wish I could see your feet. In the pic on the left especially it looks like you might be ‘floating’ up a bit instead of sinking down into it. Another note would be to bring that left hand in closer to your face. We used to do drills where we would take turns kicking each other and leg block with a simultaneous punch to the kickers face. Punch him in the face every single time he kicks. It really helps ingrain correct placement of that left hand.
Another advantage to the traditional method (the way you were taught originally) is that as the leg recoils from the kick, the hand that you threw back can take advantage of the movement for a follow up punch.. jab-kick-overhand left. , a great ‘bread and butter’ combo.
Somewhat on topic, is there a purpose to the “goalpost” hand position, or is that just really bad form?
What I’m referring to, (I see a lot of wannabe full-contact guys do this one) is, from a rear-leg round kick, both arms coming up into what looks, if one were to take a snapshot, like a nancified, “Hooray, I scored a touchdown, smack my ass and let’s go get a latte!” posture. It doesn’t really seem like a guard, because the hands are out to the side and too far from the head, and it’s definitely not the “throw the one arm down for balance/torsion” thing. So what is it? Anyone?
Sounds possibly like “shooting” the hands forward. Sounds wrong if they dont look well guarded.
Kick to close the distance, shooting hands forward to cover/crash into his attack lines, then grab and pull into knees or rain down elbows and punches.
Originally posted by IronFist Proponents of the first way say “who cares if your hand drops down? You’re kicking so freaking hard that it doesn’t matter cuz anyone who gets in the way is going to drop anyway.”
the proponents of this say several things, but not that…
you have the other hand up to block
you leaning, and are leaning and are ideally out of the way of the power hand
you are using the dropped hand to add power
depending on who taught you, you may swing that arm at head height as opposed to downward, that way if your opponent happens to step in as you do, you may be able to get that arm around the back of his head and pull him down into a knee instead of kicking him.
Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
[B]im definatley in camp two. i say hands up always.
i know this isn’t what we are discussing, but i also keep my standing leg bent just a little and try to keep my kicking leg parallel to the ground. however, i was taught by a guy who was also into traditional styles so he might have had his own reasons for having me do it this way. most people i see throwing thai’s are doing it exactly like you are in your pics. [/B]
I was taught to sink like that when throwing leg kicks. I don’t keep it bent though, I sink as I kick.
, a great ‘bread and butter’ combo.