Awesome Mook Jong Demonstration
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041167]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PIT205BQE[/QUOTE]
What is of particular note is how effortless and proper his form is at this speed. His combined relaxation, smoothness and light controlled touch on the dummy seems almost impossible to accomplish in only 90 seconds.
…one of the worst things Ive ever seen in VT!!!
Yet another example of another useless part of WC training. That’s a perfect demonstration of how to teach yourself to “fight” with absolutely nothing that is related to real fighting.
It’s interesting to see how drastically different our opinions of this video are from one other. It is particularly defining of how our goals and intentions in training shape what we consider proper. Considering this proves how training with one another can have an real digression upon each others goals.
I think what it proves more so, is who has fought and who has not.
[QUOTE=RedJunkRebel;1041575]Considering this proves how training with one another can have an real digression upon each others goals.[/QUOTE]
So… you’re saying it’s bad to train with different styles?
Also, my goal is to develop fighting skill. What’s yours?
[QUOTE=shawchemical;1041298]. . .The point is that a wu sau in front of your face does not have the structural stability to deflect much, and it definitely cannot cover the ribs at the same time. A wu sau in front of your face will result most often in you getting hit in the face by your own hand. . . .[/QUOTE]
You can’t cover your ribs and your face with the same hand. You have to do one or the other. The uppergate Wu does have structure. I’ll make a clip today in class explaining what I mean.
[QUOTE=Vankuen;1041577]I think what it proves more so, is who has fought and who has not.[/QUOTE]
LOL. Saying the man in this video has never fought is like saying Tiger Woods has never been with a woman. Make no mistake, he is among the very best Wing Chun practitioners in the world.
[QUOTE=shawchemical;1041298]. . . . .The point is that a wu sau in front of your face does not have the structural stability to deflect much, and it definitely cannot cover the ribs at the same time. A wu sau in front of your face will result most often in you getting hit in the face by your own hand. . . . [/QUOTE]
We throw full power punches with the puncher using a forearm pad with the padded part on the “Yin” side of the forearm. This protects the puncher.
Wu Sao explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3s2pxc6Tiw
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1041269]Very impressive speed. My observation is that he is not covering his head (uppergate).
Upper and middle gates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQlv7a5l3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAPxNOsbVJI
Now I see lots of people doing the forms both empty hand and with the Do as if they are fighting little people. Now anyone who knows an inkling about fighting knows that most people are head hunters. So why not train to protect your head?
I learned the tan mid-level like most of you. But I’d rather protect my head with what some would call a high Tan, Wu or whatever than to get hit in the face. I still can’t understand why people don’t get it and still practice only a mid level tan in SLT. There is not amount of theory that can convince me not to cover my head. Plus, it’s milliseconds faster to have your hands high and drop them than to have them low and try to cover the upper gate. Why? because you have to factor in gravity and the weight of you arm. It’s milliseconds faster to drop a limb than to raise it.[/QUOTE]
Hey Phil - Considering that this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PIT205BQEis) is at close range, for us, it is more important to maintain a heavy elbow for solidity and power. This approach focuses on developing a substantial connection with the ground and a solid structure. If someone comes high, we go in for the center (or the origin of movement) instead of raising our hands high (which we would consider chasing hands).
[QUOTE=RedJunkRebel;1041735]LOL. Saying the man in this video has never fought is like saying Tiger Woods has never been with a woman. Make no mistake, he is among the very best Wing Chun practitioners in the world.[/QUOTE]
Well then based on this video…that’s like saying you’re the biggest fish in a pond full of guppies.
Besides, the statement didn’t imply that the person in the video didn’t fight, but the ones who are commenting on it as being somehow impressive.
There are universal truths to people who train to fight, regardless of style.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1041568]Yet another example of another useless part of WC training. That’s a perfect demonstration of how to teach yourself to “fight” with absolutely nothing that is related to real fighting.[/QUOTE]
You would then have to agree that skipping rope, road work, MMA fighters hitting a truck tire with a sledge hammer, chopping wood, and a host of other training exercises have no value to the sport fighter since they have nothing to do with fighting. ??? You obviously have no understanding of the attributes that are trained on the jong. Perhaps if you would take the time to read the text that precedes the video you would gain a little understanding about this training method.
[QUOTE=RedJunkRebel;1041753]Hey Phil - Considering that this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PIT205BQEis) is at close range, for us, it is more important to maintain a heavy elbow for solidity and power. This approach focuses on developing a substantial connection with the ground and a solid structure. If someone comes high, we go in for the center (or the origin of movement) instead of raising our hands high (which we would consider chasing hands).[/QUOTE]
Opinions vary. Fighters are taught to cover their heads. Covering your head isn’t chasing hands. Try sparring someone without covering your head. You may hit him in the center but you’ll get cracked in the head. You can develop the body for punches and kicks but not the head.
The bottom line is that you must do what works for you. I know I do.
Notice how “fighters” cover their heads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWV7xjfgKro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHdOyLJxtYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAugwPLV92k
But of course anyone who has done sparring or competed knows that. 
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1041757]Opinions vary. Fighters are taught to cover their heads. Covering your head isn’t chasing hands. The bottom line is that you must do what works for you. I know I do.[/QUOTE]
Phil - No attack on your methods intended, my friend. I realize that our approach goes a little further than most do in considering what we consider chasing hands. Also consider that at least in our approach, forms such as this video should look different than sparring as their purpose is developmental.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041756]You would then have to agree that skipping rope, road work, MMA fighters hitting a truck tire with a sledge hammer, chopping wood, and a host of other training exercises have no value to the sport fighter since they have nothing to do with fighting. ??? You obviously have no understanding of the attributes that are trained on the jong. Perhaps if you would take the time to read the text that precedes the video you would gain a little understanding about this training method.[/QUOTE]
Those things you mentioned are to condition your energy systems…which directly affect your ABILITY to continue fighting. You have your high output short duration, moderate output moderate duration, and low output long duration. Each of those conditioning exercises work those three systems. Those exercises aren’t part of a curriculum per say, nor are they necessary to “learn to fight” but rather to prepare the instrument for use (your body).
So with the wing chun dummy, applying the offensive and defensive techniques (“application”) of the system in a non-realistic and haphazard way does what exactly?
Because as I know it, the whole purpose of the dummy was to train the neijia (“internal”) system, not to learn how to apply the techniques…which means that creating variations in the form (like a compression form) does nothing. If you’re trying to apply energy, you can do that with a wall bag, heavy bag, pads, and the like and do so in the same fashion that you would in real application.
Why would you want to create muscle memory with something that will hinder your ability to fight when there are better methods available that will allow you to reach your goal while not creating bad habits?
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041167]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PIT205BQE[/QUOTE]
It is also important to make note that practicing the form this quickly is only for those that have already put years into training the dummy slowly and for structure. Additionally, it shouldn’t be practiced this way all of the time. However, the fact is that practicing the wooden dummy form this quickly makes your movements more efficient. This efficiency and level of comfort at this insane speed creates a certain smoothness, stability and accuracy through the transitions from position to position - - creating security during your most vulnerable moments.
[QUOTE=RedJunkRebel;1041759]Phil - No attack on your methods intended, my friend. I realize that our approach goes a little further than most do in considering what we consider chasing hands. For us, controlling the origin of movement negates everything. If it can’t be the center line, it is the origin of the energy on the limb that is attacking us. Also consider that at least in our approach, forms such as this video should look different than sparring as their purpose is developmental.[/QUOTE]
Understood. But we believe that a form should be as close to the real application as possible.
I can point to fighting apps in all of our forms. So the form and it’s application is developmental.
I’m working on a video explaining the applications in our forms.
[QUOTE=RedJunkRebel;1041770]It is also important to make note that practicing the form this quickly is only for those that have already put years into training the dummy slowly and for structure. Additionally, it shouldn’t be practiced this way all of the time. However, the fact is that practicing the wooden dummy form this quickly makes your movements more efficient. This efficiency and level of comfort at this insane speed creates a certain smoothness, stability and accuracy through the transitions from position to position - - creating security during your most vulnerable moments.[/QUOTE]
Laughing at the fact that you think that is insane speed.
Efficiency…how does it make your moves more efficient? Does it reduce the amount of effort for a given result? Does it enable you to reduce the steps it takes for a result?
It actually reduces your ability to work with a live partner because your body is memorizing THE DUMMY’s DIMENSIONS AND SPATIAL ORIENTATION. This does not translate to real life. This is illustrated by the stupid blindfold in the video. You think that if he had a blindfold working against a skilled opponent that he’d be able to do anything of the sort? Hell no he wouldn’t.
Why is it so hard to let go of old, outdated methods?? If you want to hit the dummy that’s fine, just don’t make it out to provide you with something it does not.
[QUOTE=Vankuen;1041772]How does it make your moves more efficient? Does it reduce the amount of effort for a given result? Does it enable you to reduce the steps it takes for a result? [/QUOTE] Yes and yes. Practicing the dummy at this speed develops your body to reduce the amount of effort. As you work on getting your speed down to less than 2 minutes (90 seconds in this video), you must move more efficiently in order to get to each position within the compressed time.
This method of training the dummy at this speed is anything but old and outdated. In fact, that’s why its so controversial to so many of the old school Wing Chun community. It goes against the traditional methods of how to train the dummy yet in a way that doesn’t disregard the completeness of Wing Chun by adding other arts to it.
Although there can never be a substitute for realistic sparring, Karl has found that training the dummy form at this insane speed is an undeniable advancement in making practitioners better… faster.