That sucked.
Jackie chan’s is still the best !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iMYCAICTao
I must agree with the two previous posters, the man looked as if he had soft hands and was fast, but his roots were all over the place, among other things.
Anyway, to each his own…
True rooting is rooting while moving. You can’t see the root. You have to feel it.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041248]True rooting is rooting while moving. You can’t see the root. You have to feel it.[/QUOTE]
It was bad. Very bad.
Very impressive speed. My observation is that he is not covering his head (uppergate).
Upper and middle gates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQlv7a5l3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAPxNOsbVJI
Now I see lots of people doing the forms both empty hand and with the Do as if they are fighting little people. Now anyone who knows an inkling about fighting knows that most people are head hunters. So why not train to protect your head?
I learned the tan mid-level like most of you. But I’d rather protect my head with what some would call a high Tan, Wu or whatever than to get hit in the face. I still can’t understand why people don’t get it and still practice only a mid level tan in SLT. There is not amount of theory that can convince me not to cover my head. Plus, it’s milliseconds faster to have your hands high and drop them than to have them low and try to cover the upper gate. Why? because you have to factor in gravity and the weight of you arm. It’s milliseconds faster to drop a limb than to raise it.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1041269]Very impressive speed. My observation is that he is not covering his head (uppergate).
Upper and middle gates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQlv7a5l3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAPxNOsbVJI
Now I see lots of people doing the forms both empty hand and with the Do as if they are fighting little people. Now anyone who knows an inkling about fighting knows that most people are head hunters. So why not train to protect your head?
I learned the tan mid-level like most of you. But I’d rather protect my head with what some would call a high Tan, Wu or whatever than to get hit in the face. I still can’t understand why people don’t get it and still practice only a mid level tan in SLT. There is not amount of theory that can convince me not to cover my head. Plus, it’s milliseconds faster to have your hands high and drop them than to have them low and try to cover the upper gate. Why? because you have to factor in gravity and the weight of you arm. It’s milliseconds faster to drop a limb than to raise it.[/QUOTE]
Its because of the poor habits it creates. The form is not the place to be doing that, as the positions should always remain neutral. The idea of the form is to be training the elbow to drive the movement, and to have it move in a straight line. It is also to make us recognise that there is no need to block that which will miss us anyway. The point is that a wu sau in front of your face does not have the structural stability to deflect much, and it definitely cannot cover the ribs at the same time. A wu sau in front of your face will result most often in you getting hit in the face by your own hand.
AS you were showing, drills are the time and place to adapt the height of each technique to the man you are fighting.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041248]True rooting is rooting while moving.[/quote]
True rooting is wether you are still, or moving.
One can see good rooting, and even more so, bad rooting. I am sorry, different lineages have different standards for rooting, specially nowadays, so we can leave it there.
There is a Wing Chun instructor in this very thread who thinks the video was good, so different strokes, but I still say that I did not see kung fu rooting there, hence was a lacking in body unity, and that is my humble opinion.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1041269]Very impressive speed. My observation is that he is not covering his head (uppergate).
Upper and middle gates
[/QUOTE]
It’s not about “covering gates”. If I control you and your bridges, I am “covered”.
Now I see lots of people doing the forms both empty hand and with the Do as if they are fighting little people.
The forms aren’t representative of fighting, they are only texts to the tools of WCK.
Now anyone who knows an inkling about fighting knows that most people are head hunters. So why not train to protect your head?
That makes very good sense if you are a free-movement fighter like a boxer (which is why their guard does cover their head). However, if your method is control the opponent while striking them (attached fighting), then your control provides the “cover.”
BTW, it is very inconsistent of you to talk about the need to cover your head when the guard you teach doesn’t cover the head!
I learned the tan mid-level like most of you. But I’d rather protect my head with what some would call a high Tan, Wu or whatever than to get hit in the face.
This is because you see those actions as “blocks” – but they are not. They are bridge hands (hands in contact with an opponent). The contact provides protection.
I still can’t understand why people don’t get it and still practice only a mid level tan in SLT.
Because some of us aren’t practicing WCK kickboxing. There are very good reasons for learning to tan with your ELBOW down and in and why doing what TWC does is from a contact standpoint utter nonsense.
There is not amount of theory that can convince me not to cover my head. Plus, it’s milliseconds faster to have your hands high and drop them than to have them low and try to cover the upper gate. Why? because you have to factor in gravity and the weight of you arm. It’s milliseconds faster to drop a limb than to raise it.
This is because you learned Cheung’s WCK kickboxing and see things from a nonWCK perspective.
WCK’s method is to join to your opponent, cut-off his offensive capability, and destroy his body structure (so he can’t launch) while striking him.
the ‘elbows’ of tan ..fok..wu…are all low and for developing good striking habits we use…chisao is done low too for the same reasons…dummy should further this idea, not have arms high
elbow & wrists point to opponents jaw striking
the dummy isn’t 1:1 applications
doing it with the right idea is key , not how fast or how high or low etc…if your just doing poses and looking for 1:1 you’ll end up in a mess.
the dummy arms are situated so the elbow region is used to make angles and contact to maintain alignment while cycling through strike/ defense / strike defence partnerships…one arm always makes an attack while the other prepares to make a strike.
abstract, but very clever idea. how to maintain attacks in every action for % in your favour.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1041353]
the dummy arms are situated so the elbow region is used to make angles and contact to maintain alignment while cycling through strike/ defense / strike defence partnerships…one arm always makes an attack while the other strikes.
abstract, but very clever idea. how to maintain attacks in every action for % in your favour.[/QUOTE]
The “neck pulling hand”, the po pai’s, the double palms, the single pak’s, the bong saos and so on illustrate that it’s not about “one arm always attacks while the other strikes.”
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1041341]It’s not about “covering gates”.[/QUOTE]
It is to me
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1041341]
BTW, it is very inconsistent of you to talk about the need to cover your head when the guard you teach doesn’t cover the head![/QUOTE]
An unfounded assumption The guard I teach DOES cover the head. Anyone here who has learned from me knows that. Now you might see a pose where my hands are low for a photo so as not to cover my face or I’m just being lazy. I teach that the lead hand covers the face and the rear hand covers the solar plexus. You are showing me more and more how little you know about what we do.
T
We did teach a low guard for the Lei Tai fights because the guys vision was impaired because of the cage headgear. We told them to keep their head down so they could see. NO other time would I teach that. Well, unless it was for a setup.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1041182]I must agree with the two previous posters, the man looked as if he had soft hands and was fast, but his roots were all over the place, among other things.
Anyway, to each his own…[/QUOTE]
Agreed. No body unity, the hands and feet were disconnected and moving alone. You could see where his weight was on the balls of the feet and where he was shifting, but that shifting wasn’t consistent with power generation.
The blindfold is a nice trick for the newbies, but only illustrates that he’s memorized his dummy.
Overall…training to fail. Nothing there will help him in a real fight.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041167]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PIT205BQE[/QUOTE]
A Muk Jong video where more than half of the vid is textual gobbledeegook just makes it all that more frustrating when we finally see the “action”.
This vid was actually the final drop in the bucket that made me realize to what extent the Wing Chun community obsesses over theoretical physics, structural engineering, static anatomy and “sensitivity” :rolleyes: at the expense of fight sense and functionality. Sadly, you’re not the only one who seems to think that “Wing Chun Talking Hands” equals writing skill.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1041365]The “neck pulling hand”, the po pai’s, the double palms, the single pak’s, the bong saos and so on illustrate that it’s not about “one arm always attacks while the other strikes.”[/QUOTE]
clearly thats not always possible…but it is the primary goal to use man sao & wu sao…lead attack + rear attack …If I need to recreate space to attack I po-pai you just enough to strike again.
The toima pak sao is to regain an attacking line , relative to your line of entry, right or left…I, Ideally should be able to strike you with the same individual pak hand, being in the correct angle to your arm position etc…
Trying to split hairs to make a case dont cut it here dude…
bil gee shows how to parry a guys wailing punches with one arm…how to get out of a wrist grab with arm…
What was the point of that compression dummy form? Pretty d@mning when the dummy barely moves when hit. Footwork was a bit stumble stumble.
A few observations:
The first couple of posts are so without substance that I would only comment that holding Jackie Chan up as the pinnacle of Mook Jong work is in a word, ridiculous
The video under discussion is simply a single snapshot in a very large picture album of training tools. The jong height can be adjusted from low to high to train the different bridges. The set is trained very slowly for posture and structure, in reverse, at normal speed as stated in the text and at accelerated speed for the reasons, again stated in the text. The lower setting promotes sinking and the development of rooting.
Since “compression” is the goal in this form, striking the jong hard is not the point and in fact may be counter productive.
Hardwork108 “One can see good rooting, and even more so, bad rooting” I maintain that you can see structure and posture that lead to effective rooting, but you have to feel to be sure that it is really there or not there.
[QUOTE=jeetsao;1041495]
Hardwork108 “One can see good rooting, and even more so, bad rooting” I maintain that you can see structure and posture that lead to effective rooting, but you have to feel to be sure that it is really there or not there.[/QUOTE]
And I maintain that if you see bad structure then there won’t be anything there to “feel”. I did not see any great potency (power) there either from the Dummy’s “feedback”.
That is not saying that the man in the video cannot fight, I am saying that based on what I have learned, he did not have proper rooting.
If you disagree, then that is fine too.