After many years of practice of Buddism in China, people were stuck with literally following doctrines and fixed system of practice.
Zen masters (teachers) appeared 1500 years ago.
Instead of following rituals, myths, and doctrines of Buddha, they internalized the teachings with open and unobstructed minds to attain enlightenment.
So the question is that how do you have a uncluttered mind to see things as they are?
How to have a Buddha mind?
How to have a normal mind?
Learning the path of Zen study has no special mysterious gateway or essential road: it requires individuals to awaken on their own.
-Yun-ku (1256)
If you want to understand the way directly, the normal mind is the way. what I call the normal mind is free from artificiality: in it there is no right or wrong, no grasping or rejection, no extinction or permanence, no banality or sanctity.
-Ma Tsu (709-788)
Greetings..
Buddha mind, Normal mind? even that distinction deviates from the natural.. we are too easily swayed by this theory and that theory..
Zen? monasteries? deceptions?.. the world is the monastery, life is the ritual.. separation into classes and cults is a separation from the âWayâ things are..
Learning the path of Zen study has no special mysterious gateway or essential road: it requires individuals to awaken on their own.
Yet, toady with its formal schools, its intricate Koans, its harsh masters, it is difficult to recall its humble origins..
Self-awakening is always the only way, regardless of whatever path one takes.. the awakening is dependent upon the individual, no one can force us into awareness.. it comes through individual acceptance..
How do you have an uncluttered mind?.. you choose to have an uncluttered mind.. being mindful that a choice without the deeds to manifest it is just an empty wish.. There may be several paths that lead us to the uncluttered mind but donât confuse the path with the goal..
Be well..
well said.
Silence is also a response. So that no more distraction to your post.
Hmmm
Very few individuals have ever reached enlightenment by self cultivation.
The majority of people donât know where to begin, and I think its a foolish path to tread because most people canây keep thier egoâs in check.
Having a guru to show the way is usually the best and safest manner, as they already know the way. They donât make you enlightened, naturually one has to work hard by oneself to culivate a point where you can have realisation.
My ego would say that that I could manage it but my mind knows that it requires help from those further along the path than me, if I donât want to waste time.
Zenâs humble beginings are in Chan Buddhism. Zen is Chan. The Japanese took Chinese Chan Buddhism and cultivated it themselves to call it Zen. Chan Buddhism is documented.
Good point.
Not just ego. There are many worldly things or distractions to blind our mind.
In the 21 century, there are more distractions than ever before. There are cable TV, video gaming, internets, more stuff to occupy our mind.
Yes to look for a guide or a teacher.
We only have to take up one thing in life and start from there.
I studied the Bible since kidhood. Never miss a Sunday school except for illness.
I came to US. Too many things cluttered up.
My father is a Buddhist. He meditates. I follow suits. I study TCMA everyday.
Only when I was in high school, I realized that I do not need to meditate, not to read the Bible and not to practice CMA. They are optional. I wanted to quit. Guess what I got lost.
So I turned around and practice them again. But this time I knew I wanted to.
These are what I know best. I may as well stay put and start from something that has been part of my life this long.
A carpenter may see the world and life via the things he made.
A musician from the music he composed.
A MA dude from the style he studied.
A Christian from the Bible.
A Buddhist from sutras.
The world is full of things can be made via wood. Houses, bridges, chairs, beds, desks, etc.
The world is full of music, the chirps of birds, the noises from rainfall and thunder, the splashing sound of ocean, the howling of the wind, theâ
The world is full of MA, crane, snake, mantis, scorpion, monkey, tiger, leopard, dragon. etc
Let us move up a notch to take the forms to resemble the meaning (Xing Yi). I like the Daoist idea of Tai Ji, how about Tai Ji Quan. I like to walk in a Ba Gua circle. etc
The world is full of Godâs creations and Godâs love for people.
The world is full of suffering, we have to see thru them, practice good intent, good speech and good deeds and transcend the Karma cycles.
â
Greetings..
The world is full of suffering, we have to see thru them, practice good intent, good speech and good deeds and transcend the Karma cycles.
Suffering?.. Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.. if one looks for suffering one will create it.. what is referred to as âsufferingâ is quite natural and it is contradictory to nature to seek its elimination.. needless suffering, on the other hand, should be addressed and mitigated.. life is a constant interaction between Yin and Yang, eliminate one and the other has no meaning.. practice âgoodâ this and âgoodâ that, is someoneâs subjective value judgement.. âgoodâ in one culture may be âbadâ in another.. There is no âgood/badâ, only consequences (and our labels of desirability).. it is the consequences that matter, if they promote harmony they are beneficial, if they cause harm they are detrimental.. seek the harmony, forget the judgements..
Be well..
Buddha was born a royal prince and never knew hardships.
On a few outings, he learned sickness, aging and death.
He pondered that it all starts with birth.
Sufferings of sufferings are birth, sickness, aging and death.
Awakeness simply means we come to a realization of something.
In this case, it is the meaning of the life.
Personally, I think life is gift. Each of us has a chance in life. What to do with it? That is the question.
Life is a gift from God and the parents.
My parents just want me to be happy.
God wants me to have faith in him and love my neighbors.
What do I want for my life? That is my question.
Part of Buddhisms ideas are not so much to unveil the meaning to life as they are to give meaning to your life. The ideas of cultivation rested on having contemplative experience, not simply intellectual experience. As for suffering, the Buddha taught that suffering could be overcome by discovering its source, which we can trace to our thoughts. With a thought that gives rise to negative emotions, suffering can be born. Thus the saying comes that every moment is one that can bring about Heaven or Hell. It is up to the individual to discipline and transform themselves internally.
Re: Awaken on your own
Originally posted by SPJ
[B]After many years of practice of Buddism in China, people were stuck with literally following doctrines and fixed system of practice.
Zen masters (teachers) appeared 1500 years ago.
Instead of following rituals, myths, and doctrines of Buddha, they internalized the teachings with open and unobstructed minds to attain enlightenment.
So the question is that how do you have a uncluttered mind to see things as they are?
How to have a Buddha mind?
How to have a normal mind?
[/B]
can they guenuinely exist in the same time and place??? Remember buddha, particularly saakyamuni when he received his enlightments was not doing secular society, nor were the monks!!
In my dissertation on châan , which I am getting very excited about as it now takes structure, Idâ like to discuss that. I think "the buddha mind " has evolved to include more non- aesthics lifestyles as multi media etc becomes more readily available. There are so many versions of the ânormalâ mind today, that you can almost pick a state, match your group and come off peachy 
Ps: the Zen path leads to the âbuddha mindâ no?
blooming lotus,
Another way this can be viewed as Châan states is âWe already possess the Buddha mind, we must simply come to realize this.â or in another sense, âRemove all the obstructions and dellusions which prevent us from seeing our true nature, which was with us all along.â
but to see our "true " nature , donât you think itâs somewhat neccessary to see our "old " / "human " nature , in order to overcome it???
Spiritual or "as a spirit " we are, I feel itâs still important and even crucial to acknowledge the role our human bodied existance and experiences plays in that scenario ( in all itsâ contributions) . Do you disaggree???
We should know what we are weeding and why⌠no???
Hui-neng, the sixth patriarch of Zen and the only Chinese to have authored a sutra states:
[B]â âŚ.our essence of mind which is the seed of or kernel of enlightenment, is pure by nature, and by making use of the mind alone we can reach buddhahood directly.â
âYou should know that so far as buddha-nature is concerned, there is no difference between an enlightened man and an ignorant one. What makes the difference is that one realizes it, and the other is ignorant of it.â[/B]
Hui-neng received the robe of authority by responding to a poem written by Shen-hsui the top student of the 5th patriarch. Shen-hsui wrote:
âOur body is the bodhi tree,
And our mind a mirror bright,
Carefully we wipe them hour by hour,
And let no dust alightâ
This method of gaining enlightenment is the most common path tread by individuals whose purpose is spiritual development. These individuals waste their time. Spiritual development is not a process. It cannot be gained through gradual improvement of the self over time. It is a instant realization of the essence of mind,
Hung-jen the 5th patriarch informed Shen-hsui,
âYour stanza shows you have not yet realized the essence of mind. So far you have reached the door of enlightenment, but you have not yet entered it. To seek for supreme enlightenment with such an understanding as yours can hardly be successful.
To attain supreme enlightenment, one must be able to know spontaneously oneâs own nature or essence of mind, which is neither created nor can it be annihilated. From kshana to kshana [thought moment to thought moment], one should be able to realize the essence of mind all the time. All things will then be free from restraint [i.e. emancipated]. Once the Tathata [suchness, another name for essence of mind] is known, one will be free from delusion forever; and in all circumstances oneâs mind is absolute truth. If you can see things in such a frame of mind you will have known the essence of mind, which is supreme enlightenmentâ
What Hung-jen is saying is that enlightenment is a state of realization, that is, a state of mind that is spontaneously realized. All paths that confuse enlightenment with something to be attained or gained through a process of development cannot be successful. Enlightenment is not earned or developed over time, it is instantly realized, intuitively, by direct seeing or perceiving with the mind.
Hui-Neng responded to Shen-hsuiâs poem with one of his own. Being illiterate he had some one else write the stanza for him:
âThere is no bodhi tree,
Nor mirror bright,
Since all is void,
Where can dust alight?â
His point is that there is nothing that is soiled, nothing that needs cleaning. Our essence of mind is already pure and unblemished, we just donât realize it. Since it is inherently pure there is nothing to clean as Shen-hsui would have us do. This is why Shen-hsui fell short in his understanding. He was under the delusion that there was something to clean and that this something was thereby impure. But the impurity was in his point of view not in the essence or truth of things. The intent to clean something that is inherently pure is delusion. The act or belief in impurity causes the impurity or delusion in the mind. It is this false view we are to see through.
The original method of Zen teaching was called direct pointing. That is, the master would use methods designed to point the studentâs attention towards the true essence of their mind in an attempt to get the student to directly perceive or understand his own essence of mind. This is the only method of attaining enlightenment. It is the direct understanding or seeing into of the truth or essence of things. Since all things are projections of the mind then the truth or essence can only be perceived through penetrating the mind. Hui-neng believed that the method of direct pointing should be tailored to the specific personality of the individual. But he always recommended using a method of opposites. He advised his advanced followers:
âWhenever a question is put to you, answer it in the negative, if it is an affirmative one, and vise versa. If you are asked about an ordinary man, tell the inquirer something about a sage, and vise versa. From the correlation or interdependence of the two opposites the doctrine of the mean may be grasped. If all other questions are answered in this manner, you will not be far away from the truth. â
and
âI preached to them in a way that befitted their understanding.â
And lastly Hui-neng was asked about meditation many times. On one occasion he was told that a number of masters stated that the ONLY way to reach realization was through meditation exercises. Hui-neng replied:
[B]âThe norm [Tao] is to be realized with the mindâŚâŚand does not depend on the sitting meditation. The Diamond Sutra says that it is wrong for anyone to assert that the Tathagata comes or goes, sits or reclines. Why? Because the Tathagataâs dhyana of purity implies neither coming from anywhere nor going anywhere, neither becoming or causing to be. All dharmas are calm and void, and such is the Tathagataâ seat of purity. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as attainment; why then should we bother about the sitting position?â
âThe dharma is nondual, and so is the mind. The path is pure and above all forms. I warn you not to use those exercises for meditation on quietude or for the keeping the mind a blank. The mind is by nature pure, so there is nothing for us to crave for or give up.â
âLearned Audience, when you hear me talk about the Void, do not at once fall into the idea of vacuity, (because this involves the heresy of the doctrine of annihilation). It is of the utmost importance that we should not fall into this idea, because when a man sits quietly and keeps his mind blank he will abide in a state of âVoidness of Indifferenceâ.
Learned Audience, the illimitable Void of the universe is capable of holding myriads of things of various shape and form, such as the sun, the moon, stars, mountains, rivers, men, Dharmas pertaining to goodness or badness, deva planes, hells, great oceans, and all the mountains of the Mahameru. Space takes in all of these, and so does the voidness of our nature. We say that the Essence of Mind is great because it embraces all things, since all things are within our nature. When we see the goodness or the badness of other people we are not attracted by it, nor repelled by it, nor attached to it; so that our attitude of mind is as void as space. In this way, we say our mind is great. Therefore we call it âMahaâ.
Learned Audience, what the ignorant merely talk about, wise men put into actual practice with their mind. There is also a class of foolish people who sit quietly and try to keep their mind blank. They refrain from thinking of anything and call themselves âgreatâ. On account of their heretical view we can hardly talk to them.
Learned Audience, you should know that the mind is very great in capacity, since it pervades the whole Dharmadhatu (the sphere of the Law, i.e., the Universe). When we use it, we can know something of everything, and when we use it to its full capacity we shall know all. All in one and one in all. When our mind works without hindrance, and is at liberty to âcomeâ or to âgoâ, then it is in a state of âPrajnaâ.
Learned Audience, all Prajna comes from the Essence of Mind and not from an exterior source. Have no mistaken notion about that. This is called âSelf-use of the True Natureâ. Once the Tathata (Suchness, the Essence of Mind) is known, one will be free from delusion forever.
Since the scope of the mind is for great objects, we should not practice such trivial acts (as sitting quietly with a blank mind). Do not talk about the âVoidâ all day without practicing it in the mind. One who does this may be likened to a self-styled king who is really a commoner. Prajna can never be attained in this way and those who behave like this are
not my disciples.â[/B]
All quotes are from the A. F. Price & Wong Mou-lam translation.
I so deeply appreciate the post, but doctrine and even sutra as a concept can be obttained so many ways, your method is only one.! 
On clarity of mind (like a mirror).
On acute and instant realization of things as things are. This is the point of enlightenment.
On use of the mind actively to realize or understand things or laws.
On not to void the mind blank by sitting meditation.
Good points.
Overtime, it will be dusty. Then comes the wind. It become a sandstorm. With eyeglasses or goggles on. The visibility is still very low.
We all want a sunny day with a clear sky. But there is dust everywhere.
If we are hungry, our mind only knows to feed.
If we are tired, our mind only knows to rest.
If we are angered, our mind only knows to seek peace.
Enlightenment of things happens at one point, when and where there are no dusts or emotions.
Cleaning and meditation away from life âeventsâ are creating the point of environment where and when enlightenment may show itself to a non- distracted, -hungry, -weary, -dreaded nor---- mind.
Right, but can you/ have you ever emptied your mind to go beyond where those "needs " were needs!!!
how long without sleep??
How long without food and water??
How long without human contact and affection ( physical or otherwise??)
No one here is a monk njor nun , and call me a walking ego, but I have every intention of getting there myself. Who here has thought and committed so deeply?? Are you all so " onto it" that another mindsâ words are below your realm of consideration??
How enlightened :rolleyes:
"How enlightened :rolleyes: "
Unlike blooming eyebrows, however, who can only look down upon everyone on this forum with pity from her seat of high enlightenment. :rolleyes:
The previous post is saying direct and instant realization.
The previous post is also saying cleaning and sitting meditation are not right.
My post agreed to all the points.
I humbly pointed out cleaning the dust and meditation are necessary to reach the point.
This is called positive inclusion. I agreed to it and expanded its reasoning to include a counterpoint.
Buddha tried not eating, not sleeping and --.
I agreed with you on how long. I said we have to have non hungry, non weary --mind to reach the point without distractions.
Thank you for your affirmations.
in humanity , everything is a distraction from spirit ( if you believe we have one )
and Cerebus⌠you are seeking so hard , you 've become an extremely harsh judge. Of course I donât know everything or Iâd 've figured how to check out with good karma. Death is a privelidge and I havenât earnt it.
I find beauty and enlightenmight in the most humble of places, human bodies of all levels, age and skill. How often have you looked at a new born baby and thought " crikey!! thereâs a point to carry "??? I sit on no throne, and if you put me there, please realise this demeans each moment I sit on it .
âI sit on no throne and if you put me there, please realise this demeans each moment I sit on it.â
When have I put you on a throne? No really, when? Câmon, just one instance. You canât quote a single one because there arenât any. Your talking as if I ever did any such thing is just your passive-aggressive way of trying to feed your own ego. Get over yourself, bl. The only âthroneâ youâve ever been on was made of porcelain and fulla sh!t.