are forms really enough?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
21

If you REALLY want to learn how to fight using Praying Mantis (or any other kung fu style), you have to train for reality scenarios.

And that requires skilled training partners and a skilled training coach.

For example, we do a drill for the women in which big attackers rush them and pick them up off the ground. The women have to fight back by scratching and clawing in a realistic fashion but without realistic power.

What ISN’T realistic is putting on the pads and dancing around in a ring trying to score points on each other. Real life attackers will wade right through your hardest blows and either try to take you down or take you out. And facing multiple armed opponents is a scenario rarely practiced, even (especially) in top level BJJ schools.

Training how to really fight is never going to be like REALLY fighting (or so the US military and I believe), but one can hone his combat skills in a controlled environment to a very high extent.

22

Originally posted by SilentMantis
…If you know what your doing they actually don’t last very long. The applications of the praying mantis sytle a very direct and effective, and students i know, as well as myself find it hard to hold back. Therefore when we spar its kinda reserved. SO my question is whether or not that type of sparring is applicable to the praying mantis style? Can students go back and forth, throwing attacks and countering them at the same time when our style is aimed at hindering the opponent in a matter of moves?

I think a fighter learns more by sparring hard often, than fighting often. The reason I believe this is because REAL fights don’t last long. Whereas sparring, you can nail your opponent a couple of times, throw him to the ground, help him up, and continue sparring (or vice-versa). You DON’T need to break his nose, swell his eyes shut, or dislocate his shoulder, to know that you executed a technique effectively. You can force your sparring partner to the ground in an arm-bar, and know whether you could’ve continued to apply force and hyper-extend his arm without ACTUALLY doing it.

You can spar hard once a day, every day for a month, and gain valuable fighting experience, and be comfortable with throwing hands in combat. You can also fight once a day, every day for a month, make enemies and get yourself killed.

To be honest, I’ve seen guys training for UFC that break each-others noses, bust their lips, and give each-other black-eyes. If you’re training for an upcoming no-holds barred match, you should train with the same intensity. Still, they don’t train like this ALL the time.

Boxers, UFC competitors, wrestlers, they all hone their techniques in training (sparring, bag-work, endurance, etc.). They don’t hone their skills in the ring on the evening of the bout, or the street.

23

i think learning and perfecting forms is important in one’s training. i like doing them. they help with balance, endurance, energy transference, ect. but i agree with Bei and Tainan that one can fight effectivly with drills, bag work, and sparring. i’ve found that i learn most of my stuff better through drills.

24

Forms have their place

I feel forms offer ideas and techniques that you should apply when you spar/fight.Just think about it,these forms have been around for hundreds of years.Someone was kicking butt using techniques from forms.Your kung-fu ancestors(who killed more people than any of us hope to)thought enough of the forms to keep them,and pass them on to their students.Then they killed people.I’ve learned there are no shortcuts in kung-fu.And if you neglect one of your training tools then you just limiting yourself.Don’t get me wrong drills are very important in gaining fighting skills.But,within these drills should contain techniques from the forms.

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good post GOT’EM. i have been thinking about this topic a bit lately. i have gotten a lot of ideas from stuff in forms. also, most things in drills are the same movements over and over, (don’t get me wrong, i’m a big fan of repititious training) and you can learn to almost “sleepwalk” through them, even if you’re doing them balls to the walls. forms offer some more variation. you usually have to pay more attention.

i strongly agree if you neglect one part of your training you are short changing yourself. those forms and drills are there for a reason.