Someone makes the following comments:
Most
But most WC guys are against the idea of “cross training”. Why?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1272327]
But most WC guys are against the idea of “cross training”. Why?[/QUOTE]
Because they are stupid
Why do you think they call them Wing Chun dummies!
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1272327]Someone makes the following comments:
Most
You don’tnow enough about wing chun- you comment on posts by people who
don’tknow enough about wing chun. Why do you comment on wing chun in a general forum?
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1272400]
You don’tnow enough about wing chun
[/QUOTE]
I think people who have been in the Chinese martial arts 20, 30, 40 years know plenty about Wing Chun
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1272400]
you comment on posts by people who don’t know enough about wing chun.
[/QUOTE]
ah, but here’s the thing… according to those on the wing chun forum, no one knows.. well, of course, each poster thinks they know and everyone else doesn’t know… Chinese martial arts is a dysfunctional family as it is, but Wing Chun is that secret cousin locked in the asylum that no one wants to talk about
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1272400]
Why do you comment on wing chun in a general forum?
[/QUOTE]
why do you care? why do you take it so seriously?
[QUOTE=lkfmdc; ----------------------------------------------
Because a good art is widely misrepresented.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1272327]Someone makes the following comments:
Most
But most WC guys are against the idea of “cross training”. Why?[/QUOTE]
Some would say that the body methods are different with each “style/school”.
If you are into ba ji, you have to develop a strong horse stance and short burst power.
If you are into pi gua, you have to move about with your high horse stance, and develop long and crispy power.
It really depends your body build and preferences.
If you are into long fist, you stress long and extended posture and moves.
If you are into mantis, you need to develop short, intermediate and long power with fast steps and hand moves.
Of course, this is over generalization.
The big beef against cross train with multiple styles is that you need to be good at one before you move on to the next.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1272398]Why do you think they call them Wing Chun dummies![/QUOTE]
Ba-dum-tss! 
I’ve never understood why some people are against cross training. Maybe they are simple and can’t grasp more than one thing at a time. I don’t know, but I’m all for cross training. Not only does it add to a persons bag of tricks, but at the very least it helps you understand how to deal with different styles of fighting.
For example; even though I can, I don’t throw many kicks above the solar plexus, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to learn how those kicks work. If I don’t understand something fully then how in the world can I defend against it or counter it?
If we look at some other physical activities we can see variations that qualify as cross training that appear to be pretty successful.
Gymnasts compete in multiple events demonstrating different skills. Dancers usually train in more than one form of dance. Decathletes and pentathletes train in different events utilizing different skills.
Warriors in Japan and and Europe trained in different weapons, not just one.
If a person trains kicks, strikes, throws, falls and few weapons, even within a defined Art, THAT is cross-training!
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1272400] Why do you comment on wing chun in a general forum?[/QUOTE]
Because I like to hear opinions not only from WC guys but also from non-WC guys.
Cross-training IS traditional. All the true systems of MA we have today are a result of cross-training and the resulting evolution. Even if there were practitioners in the past who couldn’t cross-train for whatever reasons (inability to be accepted for it, unavailability in their locale, or other difficulties), they would have if they could have. Most of the old CMA teachers I knew about knew at least two different systems.
I do feel it’s good to develop a solid base in one art first. And there’s nothing wrong with specializing in a favorite, or base art. For example, my base art for the past 21 years has been CLF, but all the MA experiences I gained prior to that and after are still with me and colors the way I do things.
Cross-training doesn’t necessarily mean having to study 20 different arts, but rather experiencing through sparring exchanges, etc., and joining certain schools to train in. It may not be necessary for someone training a MA strictly for recreation, but if you want to be able to deal with different types of situations/opponents/styles of fighting (or at least have some idea), cross-training is an absolute necessity.
Combat or sport
WC is meant for “real” fighting and not for sport, yes?
If you were training for only one sport it would seem that sticking exclusively to one training from a master would help to excel in that sport, using those rules.
But combat really has no rules. So if you wanted to be a good combatant wouldn’t cross training be the best way? Go to the best spear man, sword man, knife fighter, thrower, striker, hurdler, climber and learn what each views as essential. For combat isn’t it better to develop a broader set of answers even if not the most advanced moves? Learn basics, learn them well.
That seems to be the tactic of most military and police outfits. And if a guy shows real potential in a specific area then push him to compete in that area.
If the art is Martial, isn’t it important to try your self against other arts even before you are a master so you can improve before you cant afford to loose to another discipline?
You need conditioning.
You need stamina.
You need strength.
You need speed.
None of these are trained in the same manner. There is no single way to cover all these and I don’t care what that insanity guy says.
[QUOTE=Pipefighter;1272465]WC is meant for “real” fighting and not for sport, yes?
If you were training for only one sport it would seem that sticking exclusively to one training from a master would help to excel in that sport, using those rules.[/QUOTE]
Even within that context, most high level athletes have trained under a succession of qualified people. Olympic wrestlers more than likely trained under one coach in high school, different coaches in college, etc. Same with most sports.
For some reason, despite the history of kung fu repeatedly saying otherwise, some people seem to think that having to go outside of one teacher is a weakness of the practitioner and the teacher, instead of recognizing good kung fu and learning it.
Kiss
Keep It Simple Stupid.
You need to train and keep things to the most minimal yet maximizes potential in application.
Why do Kung Fu people tell you that you need 10 years to learn something that others are teaching in 1?
Ive given up on the BS Takes 10years Kung Fu movement and started to train much more realistically.
All for use and nothing for show.
You need to train how to strike, kick, throw, & grapple. If need be, go learn from others. I agree with many others here that there is nothing wrong with learning from multiple teachers. Look at Master Chang from Shuai Jiao. He spent years learning from different teachers who were experts in different aspects of Shuai Jiao, let alone being cross trained in other systems.
If you do not train in what you lack, someone who does is going to get you.
I do not care who tells you that you only need one of the above mentioned skills or half of them.
If you lack one of these areas, someone who does not will get you.
Hence the Masters of old trained in Da Ti Shuai Na. And sought out people who could help them.
We need to examine our training and update it.
The more you bleed, sweat and cry in the training hall, the less you will bleed, sweat and cry on the battle field.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1272327]Someone makes the following comments:
Most
But most WC guys are against the idea of “cross training”. Why?[/QUOTE]
Francis Fong and his Wing Chun people aren’t against cross training. My Muay Thai instructor is a Wing Chun instructor under sifu Fong.
In fact, I would say most of the Wing Chun people I’ve ever met cross train in some other martial art. Maybe I haven’t been around enough wing chun people.
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;1272484]
Ive given up on the BS Takes 10years Kung Fu movement and started to train much more realistically.
All for use and nothing for show.
[/QUOTE]
100% agree. Form, in one sense, is an encyclopedia of a system’s techniques/approaches. Pulling them out of their and drilling them is an absolute necessity from the start. Form is for those studying the system and carrying on the lineage, not for showing off. If one understands the contents of the form, and has trained them, then the least entertaining thing they could possibly do to showcase their style is the form, versus actually throwing people, seizing, etc.
kung fu people are often against crosstraining because they see western martial art of their fathers as bullies. but the truth is most people who train “modern” martial arts were also bullied as children. its just taboo in western culture to talk about this things and show weakness, whereas asian martial arts ackowledge that one time you were weak. transformation of a weak scared man into a strong and scary man is a theme of taoist kung fu, related to alchemy and elixir transforming.
dont confuse ackowleding of your weakness into embracing and celebrating weakness.
[QUOTE=bawang;1272493]dont confuse ackowleding of your weakness into embracing and celebrating weakness.[/QUOTE]
Very well stated. Too many people have to find a reason other than their own training for why results don’t match claims, and a lot of people train in order to claim to be something, instead of just becoming what they joined martial arts to be.
No one joins a martial art to defend the honor of [insert style here].
[QUOTE=Faux Newbie;1272498]Very well stated. Too many people have to find a reason other than their own training for why results don’t match claims, and a lot of people train in order to claim to be something, instead of just becoming what they joined martial arts to be.
No one joins a martial art to defend the honor of [insert style here].[/QUOTE]
kung fu people often associate big muscles with arrogance, bullying, and humiliation and pain. they often see kung fu styles like tai chi and wing chun as “one weird trick to defeat big tough guy”. this is why they are scared of “cross training”. to meet their childhood bully archetypes again. to know that they did not go on to bag groceries and flip burgers, but are successful and power, and still dominate you. skinny efiminate kung fu guys are children of boomers, that was the generation of neglect, lack of love from parents, new age movement erasing european tradition and heritage, and emasculation from feminism. that is why they seek out kung fu to fill that void within themselves.
you never have to accept what you are. you never have to “just be yourself”.
the theme of kung fu is transformation.
lifting weights and hitting bags is not “crosstraining”. they are “training”.