about Bruce Lee

Bruce Lee never fought in a full contact sanctioned match.

He did some exhibition stuff and beat up a teenage kid apparently, according to the stories on the set of enter the dragon.

He also fought with Wong Jack Man in a challenge match that was behind closed doors and may have been involved in a scrap or two as a kid although that’s all hearsay and in fact, the story about the wong jack man fight is still tossed back and forth and no one really knows what happened except for a couple of the people who were there and to this day, they’re not reallyt saying much and what they do say defines the fight as fairly insignificant.

So, was he a hard core fighter? By all accounts, not in the least. But could he demonstrate skills? yes he could. And to that end, let the man rip. yeesh, he’s been dead longer than the greater majority of this board has been alive. lol

he’s a cult status hero, like many others who have walked and still walk the earth.

cult status is virtual cred and when it comes to these notions, ones as good as the next.

Bruce Lee was a Cha-cha champion in China. It’s a type of dance I’m not too familiar with. Pick up any book about him and you’ll learn that it’s true.

“He said that Bruce punched and kicked Chuck all around the room.”

That’s so doubtfull…it’s funny. It’s in Inosanto’s best interest to paint his teacher in a good light. Anyway, Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, and Bob Wall were not Bruce Lee’s students. They all trained with him for a bit in the 60’s…that’s all. Joe Lewis was not as impressed with him. Lewis fealt that he could have beaten Bruce Lee and also fealt that Bruce Lee would not have been sucessful at full contact kickboxing. He also fealt that Bruce’s teaching was too philosophical. They had a falling out in the end.

Bottom line is that B. Lee did not prove himself on the mat. Lewis, Norris, and Wall did. Bruce did alot for MA but was not a proven fighter. It’s just the truth.

[QUOTE=Anthony;738072]Bruce Lee was a Cha-cha champion in China. It’s a type of dance I’m not too familiar with. Pick up any book about him and you’ll learn that it’s true.

“He said that Bruce punched and kicked Chuck all around the room.”

That’s so doubtfull…it’s funny. It’s in Inosanto’s best interest to paint his teacher in a good light. Anyway, Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, and Bob Wall were not Bruce Lee’s students. They all trained with him for a bit in the 60’s…that’s all. Joe Lewis was not as impressed with him. Lewis fealt that he could have beaten Bruce Lee and also fealt that Bruce Lee would not have been sucessful at full contact kickboxing. He also fealt that Bruce’s teaching was too philosophical. They had a falling out in the end.

Bottom line is that B. Lee did not prove himself on the mat. Lewis, Norris, and Wall did. Bruce did alot for MA but was not a proven fighter. It’s just the truth.[/QUOTE]

its so funny you think that bruce didnt kick chuck around the room lee had way more skill than norris and lewis its a joke trying to compare norris or lewis to bruce lee .

“I believe Chuck was a BB in Tang Soo Do and Joe was a BB in Shotokan(?) neither of which are Kung fu. Chuck was already a full contact champ which is why they selected him for Enter The Dragon.” (Yao Sing)

***CHUCK Norris was NEVER a full contact champ…as soon as full contact came in (circa 1974)…Norris RETIRED from tournament fighting altogether.

And it wasn’t “Enter The Dragon”…Chuck appeared in “Return Of The Dragon”.

“He said that Bruce punched and kicked Chuck all around the room.”

That’s so doubtfull…it’s funny. It’s in Inosanto’s best interest to paint his teacher in a good light. Anyway, Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, and Bob Wall were not Bruce Lee’s students. They all trained with him for a bit in the 60’s…that’s all. Joe Lewis was not as impressed with him. Lewis fealt that he could have beaten Bruce Lee and also fealt that Bruce Lee would not have been sucessful at full contact kickboxing. He also fealt that Bruce’s teaching was too philosophical. They had a falling out in the end.

Bottom line is that B. Lee did not prove himself on the mat. Lewis, Norris, and Wall did. Bruce did alot for MA but was not a proven fighter. It’s just the truth." (Anthony)

***BOTTOM line is that you don’t have a clue.

I personally saw Joe Lewis on the Johnny Carson show one night back in the late 1970’s talking about Bruce Lee…he said that Bruce was very talented as a fighter and that he was the fastest human being he’s ever seen.

Furthermore…Joe Lewis learned Bruce’s “5 angles Of Attack” (from Bruce - see the Tao Of JKD)…and then Lewis wrote magazine articles “demonstrating” what he called the 5 angles of attack - without ever mentioning Bruce’s name.

There was a lot of professional jealousy towards Bruce at that time…because the guy was the real deal.

PERIOD.

[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;738296]
There was a lot of professional jealousy towards Bruce at that time…because the guy was the real deal.

PERIOD.[/QUOTE]

If he was the real deal then name one public fight he won, one tournament he won, one tournament he entered as a competitor and not as an exhibitor.

[QUOTE=lunghushan;738309]If he was the real deal then name one public fight he won, one tournament he won, one tournament he entered as a competitor and not as an exhibitor.[/QUOTE]

Since when does not competing publicly mean you can’t fight lol. You also have to consider the place in time that you are talking about. Where there any venue’s to compete in at the time that would fit your criteria? Even if there was, would you even consider them high level competetors? Probably not, since you have already made up your mind.

To put it simply, to try to change a mind like yours is a complete waste of time. The only way to find out is gone, long since 34yrs ago. The only proof we have is the people that knew him best and our own judgement of the footage we have of him. Yeah, I agree he wasn’t unbeatable, because no one is, but Bruce did have fighting skills, and could fight if need be. PERIOD…

James

[QUOTE=sihing;738324]Since when does not competing publicly mean you can’t fight lol. You also have to consider the place in time that you are talking about. Where there any venue’s to compete in at the time that would fit your criteria? Even if there was, would you even consider them high level competetors? Probably not, since you have already made up your mind.

To put it simply, to try to change a mind like yours is a complete waste of time. The only way to find out is gone, long since 34yrs ago. The only proof we have is the people that knew him best and our own judgement of the footage we have of him. Yeah, I agree he wasn’t unbeatable, because no one is, but Bruce did have fighting skills, and could fight if need be. PERIOD…

James[/QUOTE]

Dude, I was raised that Bruce Lee was the greatest MAist of all time. But after looking at the EVIDENCE … THERE IS NO EVIDENCE.

Based upon the EVIDENCE … he had ONE fight with Wong Jack Man … everything else appears to be hearsay or conjecture.

Name one other person that has had more impact on Martial arts in the United States.

And FYI, the famous book “Tao of Jeet Kune Do” was NOT written by Bruce. It is a compilation of his notes and drawings that was put together after his death.

[QUOTE=Chief Fox;738332]Name one other person that has had more impact on Martial arts in the United States.

And FYI, the famous book “Tao of Jeet Kune Do” was NOT written by Bruce. It is a compilation of his notes and drawings that was put together after his death.[/QUOTE]

The issue is: Was he as great of a martial artist as the hype says he was.

To determine that, we would need some evidence of actual fights, or his performance in actual fights.

I’ve read his book and it’s primarily about his experiences SPARRING.

So is there any evidence that he’s a great fighter? I’m waiting.

lung your just cant admit the truth .to caught up in your own head ..and your closed minded

[QUOTE=lunghushan;738339]The issue is: Was he as great of a martial artist as the hype says he was.

To determine that, we would need some evidence of actual fights, or his performance in actual fights.

I’ve read his book and it’s primarily about his experiences SPARRING.

So is there any evidence that he’s a great fighter? I’m waiting.[/QUOTE]

Who are you, and why would we want to or have to prove anything about Bruce Lee’s fighting abilities to you?

Either you believe he could fight or not based on what is available today as evidence (video’s, personal recollections, books, personal journals by Bruce). I could care less what you believe about his abilities, as I have my own thoughts based on what I have seen. IMO he could fight at a high level. He was not unbeatable for sure as his chin could be taken into consideration and his back injury too, but to exploit those weakness would not be easy to do. Do you think you would have been up to it lunghushan?

James

[QUOTE=msg;738347]lung your just cant admit the truth .to caught up in your own head ..and your closed minded[/QUOTE]

What truth? SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE. You probably think that Jet Li is a great fighter too. At least he was a WUSHU CHAMPION … he’s a forms king. Admit it – Bruce Lee was an actor and a dancer.

[QUOTE=sihing;738350]Who are you, and why would we want to or have to prove anything about Bruce Lee’s fighting abilities to you?

Either you believe he could fight or not based on what is available today as evidence (video’s, personal recollections, books, personal journals by Bruce). I could care less what you believe about his abilities, as I have my own thoughts based on what I have seen. IMO he could fight at a high level. He was not unbeatable for sure as his chin could be taken into consideration and his back injury too, but to exploit those weakness would not be easy to do. Do you think you would have been up to it lunghushan?

James[/QUOTE]

Me? I’m a nobody on a forum.

Honestly? Do I think he could fight? I have no idea. I never met the guy. I’m looking for any evidence he was a great fighter and so far I have found NONE.

[QUOTE=lunghushan;738354]Me? I’m a nobody on a forum.

Honestly? Do I think he could fight? I have no idea. I never met the guy. I’m looking for any evidence he was a great fighter and so far I have found NONE.[/QUOTE]

The next best thing to do is to go study with one of his students. If the student is good, just imagine how good the teacher is??:rolleyes:

If your looking for proof, go find out for yourself, first hand. Inosanto is still around, he’s the most popular and recognized as one of his best students. Challenge him and find out. You up for it lunghushan??

J

[QUOTE=sihing;738362]The next best thing to do is to go study with one of his students. If the student is good, just imagine how good the teacher is??:rolleyes:

If your looking for proof, go find out for yourself, first hand. Inosanto is still around, he’s the most popular and recognized as one of his best students. Challenge him and find out. You up for it lunghushan??

J[/QUOTE]

Inosanto’s studied lots of stuff … we’re talking about BRUCE LEE here, not one of his students. We’re not talking about ME either, we’re talking about BRUCE LEE.

Was he any good? Who knows.

[QUOTE=lunghushan;738364]Inosanto’s studied lots of stuff … we’re talking about BRUCE LEE here, not one of his students. We’re not talking about ME either, we’re talking about BRUCE LEE.

Was he any good? Who knows.[/QUOTE]

Who knows, definetly not you bro..LOL

Like I said, your measure of proof is not attainable. You can’t fight the man, he’s dead, so how exactly do you expect to find proof? Go research for yourself if you are so interested in finding out. Read what others have said, spend time with people that have trained with the man and make up your mind (opps I forgot, you already have..:stuck_out_tongue: ).

Bruce Lee is definetly the person most responsible for the progression and inspiration of others in their pursuit of MA excellence over the last 30yrs. He was definetly high level in fighting skills, you can see it in his movements, read it in his books written in his own words, and from the recollections of people that knew him best. Unfortunately this is the only way to know for sure of his abilities. There were no venue’s available for him to prove his abilities while he was alive, but regardless sporting competitions are not that be all and end all of proving true fighting skills due to the fact that there are rules and regulations involved with these events.

The key is not to ask for proof, but to investigate for yourself, make your own decisions and go from there. Really and truly asking people that never knew him is ridiculous, go seek those that knew him the best to really find out.

J

There’s LOADS of evidence…eye witness accounts from people who either sparred him or saw his sparring sessions and/or his numerous streetfights.

Go back and do the research before you decide to diss the guy…like all the TONS of magazine articles that appeared back in the 70’s/80’s quoting people (ie.- other martial artists) who were witnesses (ie.- during the filming of Enter The Dragon he was being challenged virtually every day by somebody)…or any of the numerous documentaries made about him wherein people were giving eyewitness accounts…

but if you’re going to come back with the knee-jerk “oh these were just his friends/students hyping him” routine…

then I can’t waste my time continuing this conversation.

And then there’s something else…If you don’t come away from watching his 5 movies with the distinct impression that here was a guy who could REALLY fight (even with allowing for all the high kicks, spinning kicks, etc.)…

then you don’t know jack about what real fighting is all about.

Even take a look at the T.V. show episode wherein he taught a blind man to fight - and watch the fight that the man he teaches puts up at the end of the story…and you SHOULD know that Bruce Lee was the real deal.

Get a clue.

I stand corrected. I was never a big Chuck Norris fan so I’m not real familiar with his fight record. Seems he never went beyond point fighting. Joe Lewis did, however, go on to full contact kickboxing.

this is as laughable as it is tragic. sometimes earth worms crawl out of their mossy lair to preach a sermon on man. i say earth worms go back home, let the foibles of man not concern you, for man’s prowess is out of your clammy reach.

over and over again i have heard a variety of martial artists criticise Bruce Lee. I find it both repugnant and repulsive. funnily enough, it is the more capable martial artists who show deep respect for the accomplishments of Lee. many cite him as the reason they first forayed into Gung Fu in the first place. it is, however, those insecure worms that tend to be the most disrespectful.

had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime. he was well read, his library housing a range of topis from martial arts to the poetry of Rumi.

to be honest, i dont care if the man fought publicly. however, i am led to believe that he was an incredibly explosive man. he had an abundance of fast twitch fiber. this is apparent in the footage readily available on e.g. Youtube.

an original Bruce Lee student said that people were only able to hit Lee if he let them. he was just too quick. the same student was also present when Lee fought a Karate man in a streetfight (circa 1959). the fight lasted 11 seconds. guess who won.

what next… Was Mother Theresa a virtuous person?

Go train.

[QUOTE=Wu Wei Wu;738391]this is as laughable as it is tragic. sometimes earth worms crawl out of their mossy lair to preach a sermon on man. i say earth worms go back home, let the foibles of man not concern you, for man’s prowess is out of your clammy reach.

over and over again i have heard a variety of martial artists criticise Bruce Lee. I find it both repugnant and repulsive. funnily enough, it is the more capable martial artists who show deep respect for the accomplishments of Lee. many cite him as the reason they first forayed into Gung Fu in the first place. it is, however, those insecure worms that tend to be the most disrespectful.

had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime.

to be honest, i dont care if the man fought publicly. however, i am led to believe that he was an incredibly explosive man. he had an abundance of fast twitch fiber. this is apparent in the footage readily available on e.g. Youtube.

an original Bruce Lee student said that people were only able to hit Lee if he let them. he was just too quick. the same student was also present when Lee fought a Karate man in a streetfight (circa 1959). the fight lasted 11 seconds. guess who won.

what next… Was Mother Theresa a virtuous person?

Go train.[/QUOTE]

Hey Man, if you don’t have a signed contract with Spike TV, UFC, K1, then you are not considered a real fighter in today’s media world. All those before don’t mean sh!t compared to todays Giant warriors with gloves and ref’s and rules, and cut men et al et al…:rolleyes:

What I find the funniest is when you compare men that train full time to those that don’t. Really the comparison is to take those that are the champs of today, make them live regular lives with 8hr a day jobs and family responsiblilites/stresses, then go to training and do it all over again, 5 days a week, and then see where they are at (also you have to take away all their specialized training and help with the best of the best concerning nutritionalists, traininers, specialized Martial Arts coaches, and people taking care of the everyday things for them..). Put most average MA in an environment like that, with proper insentive and you will always come out with a better conditioned, comp. fighter. You have to relate it all to the environment one is in, can’t compare apples to oranges.:wink:

J