A MMA fighter would fall the fak off!!!!

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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[QUOTE=wenshu;1156287]
Here’s the thing. People keep pointing to perfectly good examples of Chinese martial arts that fit his nebulous criteria for “effectiveness” and he either just outright ignores it or adjusts the standards in the first place.
.[/QUOTE]

The video is of a man flapping his arms on a roof. I can send you video of old men playing the guitar on a roof, guys jumping doing back flips off of roofs. Forget what the French are doing jumping from roofs to roofs… none of this conveys a knowledge of martial arts.

There’s always the newbie who enters a gym and feels compelled to do some high kicks… to let everyone know they can do high kicks… usually the insecurity of a TMAer changing schools.

The flipping, high kicks. Means nothing. Shows little.

Doing less but showing more would be break falling and demonstrating getting up with posture, sprawling. Some nice mechanical shadow boxing… with hip and knees and shoulder and wrists all connected. Good use of elbows.

These things, while less glamerous, show more… but even they don’t reveal one’s ability, just hints at their level of training, understanding.

I haven’t redefined the standard. You can’t get fight credit without fighting. You can’t show form, shadow boxing, bag work and make the claim “I can”… until you go and do it yourself. Then you have a standard. And it will automatically improve. And you can monitor it.

You don’t know what I’m talking about, because you haven’t.

42

The video is of a man flapping his arms on a roof. I can send you video of old men playing the guitar on a roof, guys jumping doing back flips off of roofs. Forget what the French are doing jumping from roofs to roofs… none of this conveys a knowledge of martial arts.

i BET you won’t send a video of a MMA Champion who can do what that guy did. you’re too dense to understand how dangerous what he was doing was. you can’t see pasted your honker much less admit that people have indeed shown you video of chinese martial arts effectively working in professional fights.

Doing less but showing more would be break falling and demonstrating getting up with posture, sprawling. Some nice mechanical shadow boxing… with hip and knees and shoulder and wrists all connected. Good use of elbows.

These things, while less glamerous, show more… but even they don’t reveal one’s ability, just hints at their level of training, understanding.

prime example of your OUTRIGHT DENSITY. :rolleyes:

43

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1156283] S
This perfectly good video or an old man doing something really cool that many young men couldn’t do and somehow this has gotten back round to being about how Ray flaps his nuts.[/QUOTE]

He’s doing something cool I guess… flapping his arms and hopping. I give him that’s great. Lot’s of fun. It in no way displays any knowledge of martial arts or the ability to apply it.

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1156283]
That is what is so painfully stupid about Ray’s commentary. it’s as if he thinks we don’t understand.[/QUOTE]

If you understood you’d be embarrassed about all these pages of text, locking and deleting subjects… you’d realize there is only one way to prove that your fighting is at the level of equally experienced MMAers.

What does that mean? Many sifu here have what, 10, 15, 20 years training and teaching.

Go compare with a 15 year trained BJJ black belt. Go compare with an amateur MMA fighter who’s only been training for competition for 3 years. Just three years vs your 10+… this is not to say now, take the elite of MMA and put then up against the elite of TCMA… who would that be? Black Taoist and the westcoast dude who claims being a world champ because he pushed a couple CHinese kids of a lei tei in 1980?

Is that going to be you?

No.

Nobody in TCMA is going to do any of that because Kung Fu is dead, hiding in little Kung Fu only tournaments and masturbating publications.

44

take the elite of MMA and put then up against the elite of TCMA

why the ELITE? you’re far from that level. :confused:

Nobody in TCMA is going to do any of that because Kung Fu is dead, hiding in little Kung Fu only tournaments and masturbating publications.

its extremely humours to here you spout off what kung fu can’t do in the ring while you ignore the VIDEO EVIDENCE you look for is place right in front of you. LMAO…

45

[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1156373] you can’t see pasted your honker much less admit that people have indeed shown you video of chinese martial arts effectively working in professional fights.[/QUOTE]

So far all I’ve seen is Made in China stamped on Western Kickboxing.

All the fighters shown claim kick boxing as their primary style. The MMAers also listed BJJ and wrestling… no Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Taiji, Low Gar, Crane, Mantis, ect, etc., etc.

A kick boxer goes to China, wins a tournament, goes with his Chinese kickboxing coach to Shaolin after the fight, to visit… and you guys claim that:):confused:

Again, since you brought it up, list one current UFC fighter listing any TCMA as his primary style. Still hasn’t been done… lots of truth stretching. Lots of riding on San Da coat tails when those guys are training kick boxing, not sil lum tao.

46

[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1156377] why the ELITE? you’re far from that level. :confused:.[/QUOTE]

Again, this is not about me.

This is about you and the other kung fu sifu’s here,

[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1156377]
its extremely humours to here you spout off what kung fu can’t do in the ring while you ignore the VIDEO EVIDENCE you look for is place right in front of you. LMAO…[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I’m labeling it all TCMA but lets break it down to you… what you can’t do in the ring.

you’re a sifu of martial arts, right? Good enough to teach? By what standard? What have you done? What have any of your students done? Have any of you gone out to test in modern venues?

No. No. No. No. Of course not.

But you talk!

…And post videos of others to try to prove your unprovable point. Until someone in TCMA steps up, has some big wins and attributes it to TCMA… you’ll be in the position that you are in… that even TKD isn’t in… and you’re stay in this lowly, rightfully shameful position because Kung Fu is dead. It couldn’t regenerate without balls.

47

I guess if you do one thing you can’t possibly be good at another thing. A guy showing off some parkour couldn’t possibly be a good fighter. Hope Randy Couture never shows any video of himself at a triathlon or anything.

It’s not like being in top physical condition gives you an advantage over regular folks or anything.

Weightlifting doesn’t help with fighting because it isn’t fighting.
Same with running, nutrition, stretching, etc.

Funny how pro football players take dance lesson to improve agility. Dance isn’t football.

Seriously, how narrow minded can you get?

Not meaning you Ray, we already know that answer. :stuck_out_tongue:

48

So far all I’ve seen is Made in China stamped on Western Kickboxing.

All the fighters shown claim kick boxing as their primary style. The MMAers also listed BJJ and wrestling… no Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Taiji, Low Gar, Crane, Mantis, ect, etc., etc.

A kick boxer goes to China, wins a tournament, goes with his Chinese kickboxing coach to Shaolin after the fight, to visit… and you guys claim that

Again, since you brought it up, list one current UFC fighter listing any TCMA as his primary style. Still hasn’t been done… lots of truth stretching. Lots of riding on San Da coat tails when those guys are training kick boxing, not sil lum tao.

its hella funny how you always have something negative to regardless of the truth.

49

Isn’t Sanda a fighting format, like MMA? Like fighters of different styles fight at a Sanda venue and different style fighters fight in an MMA arena?le.

MMA is not a sty
Sanda is not a style.

Or are Wing Chun guys not allowed at either?

50

This is about you and the other kung fu sifu’s here,

Why are you so preoccupied with us for? I’m pretty confident no one logs off and worries about what you’re doing.

you’re a sifu of martial arts, right? Good enough to teach? By what standard? What have you done? What have any of your students done? Have any of you gone out to test in modern venues?

That’s really none of your business. I’m not trying to take you as a student, so don’t worry bout my past. I’m not looking for fame, nor do i have anything to prove. This is why i’m under ground.

On the other hand, everyone i’ve taught have gone out and spar different styles. For example, one of my students went away for college and he tells me this MMA/BJJ student kept tellin my student our stuff won’t work. that was until they sparred, inwhich afterwards the MMA/BJJ guy apologized and admitted its pretty effective.

more stories like that…but just sayin’…don’t worry bout what i do.

51

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156372]The video is of a man flapping his arms on a roof. I can send you video of old men playing the guitar on a roof, guys jumping doing back flips off of roofs. Forget what the French are doing jumping from roofs to roofs… none of this conveys a knowledge of martial arts.

There’s always the newbie who enters a gym and feels compelled to do some high kicks… to let everyone know they can do high kicks… usually the insecurity of a TMAer changing schools.

The flipping, high kicks. Means nothing. Shows little.

Doing less but showing more would be break falling and demonstrating getting up with posture, sprawling. Some nice mechanical shadow boxing… with hip and knees and shoulder and wrists all connected. Good use of elbows.

These things, while less glamerous, show more… but even they don’t reveal one’s ability, just hints at their level of training, understanding.

I haven’t redefined the standard. You can’t get fight credit without fighting. You can’t showform, shadow boxing, bag work and make the claim “I can”… until you go and do it yourself. Then you have a standard. And it will automatically improve. And you can monitor it.

You don’t know what I’m talking about, because you haven’t.[/QUOTE]

Shoot… you really are blind aren’t you? Or perhaps it’s a problem with my account whereby I’m the only one to see my posts. I’ve posted 3 times few links to a Hop Gar stylist fighting MMA with his chosen style and winning. Did you pay attention to it? Hell no…you are way too “selective”:o

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[QUOTE=Gru Bianca;1156389]Shoot… you really are blind aren’t you? Or perhaps it’s a problem with my account whereby I’m the only one to see my posts. I’ve posted 3 times few links to a Hop Gar stylist fighting MMA with his chosen style and winning. Did you pay attention to it? Hell no…you are way too “selective”:o[/QUOTE]

ray is blind. Ive linked him so many fighters. Fulfilled his request with his requests quoted at least 20 times. Whats funny is for years i respected the dude, until his recent diatribe that is…now hes just annoying.

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[QUOTE=Lucas;1156391]ray is blind. Ive linked him so many fighters. Fulfilled his request with his requests quoted at least 20 times. Whats funny is for years i respected the dude, until his recent diatribe that is…now hes just annoying.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, blinder then a real blind cause he chooses not to see. His lost, I give up and from now on skip his pointless posts

54

Most of the MMA people here are just 3rd rate themselves, even if that. They are just enjoying a ride on the shirt tails of a few individuals. Steriods prevail in the sport and a bunch of them have already been busted on it. Making video clips of yourself is no measure of anything. Ray himself posted some video, and I could not tell which one he was, but neither one were of any fighting skill. They had the guts to fight, but it don’t take a whole lot of guts to do that.
It is the same old broken record, over and over again. It is easy to talk tripe about tcma, but there are a whole bunch of tcma people that could wear him out with ease. All their MMA claims ride on the backs of that very few individuals, and not on their own ability. Just doing MMA don’t give you anything. That comes with steroids and hours and hours of training.

55

Again, since you brought it up, list one current UFC fighter listing any TCMA as his primary style. Still hasn’t been done… lots of truth stretching. Lots of riding on San Da coat tails when those guys are training kick boxing, not sil lum tao.

I did. everyone did. you’re blind as a feckin bat. i know its selective acknowledgements. but we’ve all proved you wrong time and time again. that doesn’t matter because you aren’t a MMA CHAMP, so you’re not qualified to tell others they’re no good.

its funny, you show videos and pictures allegedly of you when you were thinner and in better shape. then you post a video of you showing some guy how to punch and i think right then people UNDERSTOOD.

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[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156378]So far all I’ve seen is Made in China stamped on Western Kickboxing.

All the fighters shown claim kick boxing as their primary style. The MMAers also listed BJJ and wrestling… no Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Taiji, Low Gar, Crane, Mantis, ect, etc., etc.

A kick boxer goes to China, wins a tournament, goes with his Chinese kickboxing coach to Shaolin after the fight, to visit… and you guys claim that:):confused:
[/QUOTE]

most sanshou people just claim kickboxing to noobs coz it’s easier to explain.

the video i posted showed you pat barry doing forms if you actually watched it.

shawn liu was a layman disciple of at least one of the monks of shaolin.
my first sanshou coach trained under shawn liu directly, he was one of the guys who went to china to fight sanda on tv. he had a background in northern shaolin before training with shawn liu. shawn liu taught him forms as well as ring fighting. my coach still insists on his fighters maintaining at least a form or two.

the dan hardy video goes into intimate detail of his experiences at shaolin.

i’ve trained with tien shan pai guys. one of them not only won the leitai tournament in maryland, but went on to take nationals in amateur muay thai, before placing second at the world’s in canada for amateur muay thai, and winning at the world’s leitai championships in brazil. he still likes forms.

Kuoshu leitai is no joke, it dates back to 1955, and prior to 1988 there was no face mask. My first kung fu instructor fought leitai in the 80s against a Taiwanese fighter (pretty sure it was the 86 championships in Taiwan). He got knocked out of the ring. I saw footage of him fighting full contact at karate tournaments in Okinawa. He was real, he fought, he just happened to be in declining health by the time I started training with him in 94.

Mike Patterson was of a similar background, from a similar era. I think criticizing him is wrong, he paid his dues and he’s created a few generations of fighters.

In the 70s you also had the Southeast Asian Open Martial Arts Tournaments with full contact fighting. Vernon Rieta, Tat Mau Wong, and Chan Sau Chung’s guys all came through there. Back then, you had instructors that actually fought before they became teachers.

Being in New York you should know the rep of Paul Vizzio in the 70s or 80s. There’s a guy who competed in kickboxing that came from kung fu.

EDIT:
Just so it doesn’t seem like I’m hating on everyone these days; Bak Mei’s Zhong Luo is teaching mma folks in cali. They’ve had success on a local level.
Oh, and let me cite some sources:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=272
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=260

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This thread:

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I’m sorry.

You are all right. I am wrong.

I am blinded by the number of pro MMAers claiming TCMA as their primary style… even though I haven’t seen one.

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[QUOTE=Lucas;1156391]ray is blind. Ive linked him so many fighters. Fulfilled his request with his requests quoted at least 20 times. Whats funny is for years i respected the dude, until his recent diatribe that is…now hes just annoying.[/QUOTE]

Did you see my response before the post got deleted? Both the fighters you claimed for TCMA claim kick boxing as their primary style… though one visited Shaolin while on a fight tour in China.

60

[QUOTE=Gru Bianca;1156389] I’ve posted 3 times few links to a Hop Gar stylist fighting MMA with his chosen style and winning. Did you pay attention to it? Hell no…you are way too “selective”:o[/QUOTE]

Didn’t see the video.

Please list the name of the fighter. The state and venue he fought in.