[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156438]I am blinded by the number of pro MMAers claiming TCMA as their primary style… even though I haven’t seen one.[/QUOTE]
Now you’re just being intentionally obtuse.
Lucas, Gru Bianca, and I have given you tons of links.
We’ve even avoided low hanging fruit like Cung Le (another Shawn Liu trained fighter) or even Ross (who came on here and broke down exactly what TCMA strategies he still uses a few years back).
Tired of doing your homework for you.
Go back and actually read our posts or just shut the f*** up.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156439]Did you see my response before the post got deleted? Both the fighters you claimed for TCMA claim kick boxing as their primary style… though one visited Shaolin while on a fight tour in China.[/QUOTE]
i think you’ve got me confused possibly. zhang tiequan began his career as a shuai jiao competitor. then sanda, then mma. its a pretty obvious progression if you actually look.
bro there are a ton of guys that claim shuai jiao as their primary style. you do know what shuai jiao is…right?
in that thread i listed 3 guys on one post. 2 claim shuai jiao. one claims mantis…none claimed ‘kick boxing’
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1156455]LMAO ok…when he does list them what are you gonna do with that info? LMAO…[/QUOTE]
He’s going to pull out an un-sourced wiki page that lists what the guy does as kickboxing or judo because the guy tested his stuff in a kickboxing or judo competition. Rinse, repeat.
Listen, I’ll be the first to say that some folks need to update their training methods.
Spending most of the week doing forms & lion, with one day devoted to hitting stuff & hitting each other is probably not going to cut it for competition.
But I’ll also point out that there can still be some gems mixed in there and that you shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
To reference an anecdote you’re familiar with - the Buk Sing guys, especially the ones out of Austrailia: they spend a lot more time hitting pads, bags, and each other than forms work. They also test themselves in competition and have done pretty well.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1156453]i think you’ve got me confused possibly. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, he’s talking about me referencing Pat Barry & Dan Hardy; ignoring the fact that both of them have stated explicitly in videos (contained in links I provided) the influence of Shaolin on their mma.
To reference an anecdote you’re familiar with - the Buk Sing guys, especially the ones out of Austrailia: they spend a lot more time hitting pads, bags, and each other than forms work. They also test themselves in competition and have done pretty well.
i completely agree with you. Ray is a MMA UFC nut riding idol worshiper.
I find this video extremely more interesting than anything ray pina bumps his gums about…
[QUOTE=Pork Chop;1156452]Now you’re just being intentionally obtuse.
Lucas, Gru Bianca, and I have given you tons of links.
We’ve even avoided low hanging fruit like Cung Le (another Shawn Liu trained fighter) or even Ross (who came on here and broke down exactly what TCMA strategies he still uses a few years back).
Tired of doing your homework for you.
Go back and actually read our posts or just shut the f*** up.[/QUOTE]
Ross is your TCMA MMA fighter?
Or is it his kick boxing/BJJ MMA training students that you’re claiming.
Cung Le is awesome. He’s a SanShou legend… now, do you think he trains more like an MMA stylist (he does claim wrestling, BJJ and TKD as well) or does he train like the TCMA posters here, heavy on form, no competing?
So in other words, would you say Cung Le is a sport fighter or a Kung Fu man? If a Kung Fu man, what styles of Kung Fu does he train? We know he trains Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. We know he trains kick boxing and wrestling… how much time a week does he devote to Wing Chun, Hung Gar, ect?
The Ray Pina Sanctioning Organization’s Kung Fu is Not Official Regulatory Sub Committee does not recognize anything that may have the slightest chance of undermining any previous rulings.
The Ray Pina Sanctioning Organization’s Kung Fu is Not Official Regulatory Sub Committee would like to inform you that the criteria for Official Kung Fu is subject to change at any time. Furthermore it insists that you continue to submit examples of Official Kung Fu even though they will be summarily disregarded.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156470]Ross is your TCMA MMA fighter?
Or is it his kick boxing/BJJ MMA training students that you’re claiming.
Cung Le is awesome. He’s a SanShou legend… now, do you think he trains more like an MMA stylist (he does claim wrestling, BJJ and TKD as well) or does he train like the TCMA posters here, heavy on form, no competing?
So in other words, would you say Cung Le is a sport fighter or a Kung Fu man? If a Kung Fu man, what styles of Kung Fu does he train? We know he trains Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. We know he trains kick boxing and wrestling… how much time a week does he devote to Wing Chun, Hung Gar, ect?[/QUOTE]
ray, anyone competing in mma will train accordingly..i thought you would know this by now. and yes that does include people who utilize cma in their training regime. why should cma be held to a different standard than say muay thai, karate, etc.? you are rediculous bro.
the ray pina sanctioning organization’s kung fu is not official regulatory sub committee does not recognize anything that may have the slightest chance of undermining any previous rulings.
The ray pina sanctioning organization’s kung fu is not official regulatory sub committee would like to inform you that the criteria for official kung fu is subject to change at any time. Furthermore it insists that you continue to submit examples of official kung fu even though they will be summarily disregarded.
[size=“7”]rotflmfao…[/size]
ray, anyone competing in mma will train accordingly..i thought you would know this by now. and yes that does include people who utilize cma in their training regime. why should cma be held to a different standard than say muay thai, karate, etc.? you are rediculous bro.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156470]Ross is your TCMA MMA fighter?[/quote]
He’s not my anything.
He’s a coach, one who explained in great detail how his fight strategies that he passes on to his fighters are influenced and guided by TCMA.
For a fight, you’d have to talk to Rich Acosta or Ian Morgan.
Rich would beat you down and take your lunch money fyi.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156470]So in other words, would you say Cung Le is a sport fighter or a Kung Fu man?[/QUOTE]
He trains like a sport fighter who fights in mma competition.
Some of his techniques and strategies come from training with Shawn Liu and various Sanshou fighters from China. Those techniques are TCMA in origin.
Aside from Shawn Obasi, who’s style looks pretty much like a Wing Chun form, you’re not going to find too many fighters that fight like they’re doing a form. Just because other fighters aren’t moving like they’re doing a form, doesn’t mean they’re not using things from TCMA. “Kickboxing” is what happens when you strap on gloves, removing specialized fists/claws, and also have to worry about more head contact. Fighting in MMA is going to have to involve some background in ground work, so catch, judo, or bjj will be needed.
Erik Paulson was one of the first mma legends. His stuff was very much JKD. Aside from the “mix all styles, take what works” philosophy of JKD, a lot of the actual training is very heavily Wing Chun-influenced.
Nobody’s saying you don’t re-tool stuff for ring competition. What we’re saying is that you don’t throw everything away, you just modify and specialize in order to be more successful in a particular venue. There are some sifus/coaches out there who have done the re-tooling process and will train their fighters accordingly. Sam Ng’s CLF school in Chicago is another example of this.
I think there’s not much left of the horse.
It’s not just dead, it’s pulp.
He trains like a sport fighter who fights in mma competition.
Some of his techniques and strategies come from training with Shawn Liu and various Sanshou fighters from China. Those techniques are TCMA in origin.
Aside from Shawn Obasi, who’s style looks pretty much like a Wing Chun form, you’re not going to find too many fighters that fight like they’re doing a form. Just because other fighters aren’t moving like they’re doing a form, doesn’t mean they’re not using things from TCMA. “Kickboxing” is what happens when you strap on gloves, removing specialized fists/claws, and also have to worry about more head contact. Fighting in MMA is going to have to involve some background in ground work, so catch, judo, or bjj will be needed.
Nobody’s saying you don’t re-tool stuff for ring competition. What we’re saying is that you don’t throw everything away, you just modify and specialize in order to be more successful in a particular venue. There are some sifus/coaches out there who have done the re-tooling process and will train their fighters accordingly. Sam Ng’s CLF school in Chicago is another example of this.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with all of this.
And there may be some guys under the UFC level, guys most people never heard of who retool their TCMA to be straight and rounded punching, straight and rounded kicks, take downs, throws, ground n pound submission.
What makes Kung Fu unique? The trapping? The sticking? The short power? One inch punch? Animal techniques?
None of these are being utilized in MMA by anyone. Especially any TCMAer looking to win… that’s why they don’t train that way. They “retool” to kick boxing.
[QUOTE=ShaolinDan;1156538]hmm…is Master Killer a good example? :D[/QUOTE]
I’ve been ignoring him so he will speak up.
Though he probably deserves better - back in the day he offered to share his womenz.
Were I bawang, I would sing songs of his greatness.
[QUOTE=Pork Chop;1156501]He’s not my anything.
He’s a coach, one who explained in great detail how his fight strategies that he passes on to his fighters are influenced and guided by TCMA..[/QUOTE]
His fight strategies?.. based off of what fighting experience?
He outsourced a BJJ expert and teaches kick boxing to his fighters. Which is great. And smart. And why his guys win
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156541]What makes Kung Fu unique? The trapping? The sticking? The short power? One inch punch? Animal techniques?
[/QUOTE]
For me, it’s the strategies (gate theory, center line theory, 6 harmonies for generating power), parrying (a lot of boxing coaches don’t teach it anymore), northern style kicking, throws as counters to attacks, and the blending of ti, da, and shuai (punch, kick, throw) in combinations. I said before, most of my throws off of kick catches come from kung fu - muay thai has some of them, but tcma takes it to another level.
[QUOTE=Pork Chop;1156543]I’ve been ignoring him so he will speak up.
Though he probably deserves better - back in the day he offered to share his womenz.
Were I bawang, I would sing songs of his greatness.[/QUOTE]
Me? I’m a nobody who runs a nobody school full of fighters no one has ever heard of. According to DJ, I haven’t even had a modicum of success.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1156545]His fight strategies?.. based off of what fighting experience?
[/QUOTE]
What fight experience did Cus D’amato have?
Cus invented the peek-a-boo boxing style and produced hall of fame champions & trainers.
To his credit Ross got up there and tried.
The guy he went up against in his first fight was a bigger name than either of us fought and he survived longer than I did in my first fight.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1156554]Me? I’m a nobody who runs a nobody school full of fighters no one has ever heard of. According to DJ, I haven’t even had a modicum of success.
We just happen to own these…[/QUOTE]
So you’re saying that cma instills in you a desire to accessorize with flashy belts?
How is that related to fighting?
