I don’t think I know the chinese michael. Yes, I remember sean, but that is not his actual name. His name kamar Shadan(don’t remember the exact spelling of last name). But he owned a cheese shop on irving street and a very good friend of mine. Actually the cheese shop was for his mom after his dad past away, but he took over when she started getting occupied with other things. I don’t know his father’s rank in the army because I never inquired about it. I don’t know about sifu’s first Mercedes because he probably brought it after I left SF, but his first new car was a Cutless Sierarra (gray) and even recorded the license plate.
KMT stands for Kuomintang (weak question). Kung Fu USA did not started in Noriega, it goes back to the Irving St. years. You should know about his old student grade level booklet he had for each of his sifu students. The booklet has Kung Fu USA on it.
I don’t know the issues with Adam Hsu but he was part of the co founders of American Chinese Martial Federation. Who where the other co founders?
Mostly likely I don’t you. If you know me you should also know Andy G., Robert B., Fu brothers, Crazy Michael, Christina K. and others from the early days.
Old8Step,
BTW you didn’t answer my questions about the low mantis. If you seen it a few times you should remember the the beginning movements. Let me start it off for you and please continue. I can also explain the usage.
- Mantis Stance
- Low Mantis Stance
- double mantis strike
- Low Mantis Stance
Kung Fu USA Older Than 1405 Noriega
Here is a scanned copy of a copy of the US patent trademark of “Kung Fu USA”. I have block off some data that should not be seen by the public. I think anybody can verify this patent through the US Patent Office.
If you look at the registered date (April 14, 1987), you will know that it is before the 1405 Noriega school. In 1987 the school was still at Irving St.
To All - I apologized to all for going off tracked.
chaotic what year did you leave? do you know young Danny he was no more than 17 at the time of traing. Andy and Shawn(sorry I realize that is not his real name but that is how I was introduced to him) both know michael well. I see by your post that you speak to sifu. I will tell you a story from the early 90’s that you may verify with Sifu and the details would only be known to people who were there at that time. I believe this was 1992 forgive me if I am a year off as it has been over a decade. Sifu was invited to do a demonstration by the ATF if I remember correctly (could of been FBI) but when we went to do the demonstration Sifu had to perform in his suit instead of his uniform as it had been forgotten at the studio. There is a reason he told the group we demonstrated in front of why he was in street clothes and not his uniform instead of telling them that we forgot to bring it. You may ask sifu what he told them. and then I will tell you what he said with out you telling me. Feel free to PM me as it seems that we have crossed paths with many of the same people around the same time frame and I feel comfortable you are not one of the people on here wishing to speak bad about sifu as I have seen many people do.
Please Describe The Low Mantis Movements
I am most certain I was before your time. The Andy I am talking about is not Andy Miles which I am thinking is the person your are referring to, but the full name Andy Glover which was also one of the few close students of James Sun from the very early days. I left SF in 1992.
I don’t know young Danny as it was probably after my time.
I am not concern about certain events, but curious about who else knows the low mantis form.
But getting back to the ground mantis set. Can you describe a few early movement of the set that you seen done? I am very curious to know if you saw the correct low mantis form.
Chaotic also I am not one to admit a mistake as you’ve have shown Sifu did indeed patent the name Kung Fu Usa. before Noriega but to the best of my recollection none of the schools were named Kung Fu USA until the Noriega School and before he took out the first yellow page advertisement he asked myself michael jim danny kevin (not loftus) many times what we thought of the name. So that is why I said that I helped come up with the name due to the fact he wanted all of our opinions on the name before he started advertising it as such. But I am not here to argue with you as it is clear that you are an old time student of sifu even older than me. and I am also not trying to claim to be an expert a disciple or anything else for that matter I am just a person who trained with Sifu for a good amount of time many years ago and considered him and my kung fu brothers as family we trained together ate together and helped each other out I was close enough that I had a key to the school and would train when he was not there.. I will honestly tell you that I personally was not taught the ground mantis set. Did i see ground mantis steps performed during my time at the school Yes I did. did I see them taught in class no. As i said feel free to ask Sifu about Michael Jim or any of the stories I have brought up I’m sure he will verify them. As for the ground mantis please send me a pm and I will describe what I remember between us
This was never intended to be an arguement of any sort. If it seems so I apologized. I was just very curious if you were from the real old days and that I might possibly know you.
I am just curious about other students of James Sun and what they know. I am here to share more about the 8 Step system and to let others know that James Sun do in fact teach the authentic 8 Step from was past down by the late GM Wei.
Let’s all continue to contribute what we know or wish to inquire about the 8 Step system. I am on this forum to help evangelize the 8 Step Preying Mantis system that Master James Sun teaches.
please clarify left san francisco in 1992 or left training in 1992 because if you left training in 1992 I am sure that you must know michael and me because we were both teaching children’s classes at that time. and michael was training with sifu I believe at least at early as 1990 or earlier. No i did not take anything you said as an argument being that we are both students of sifu and i have seen so many people talk bad of him on this forum i wanted to make it clear to anyone reading that we agreed on certain historical facts. I am actually glad to find someone who knows sifu from the times when i was around as i have lost contact with everyone from my time and with you leaving in 92 it appears our training times overlapped maybe we have met? I as you have always firmly backed the fact that Sifu was the inheritior of the system and wish to dispel any myths about him that exist on this forum.
I left SF in latter part of 92. I attended the public classes only at Irving St. and did not attend the public classes at Noriega. Sifu taught me outside of the public classes prior to the opening of the Noriega school. I was not able to attend the Noriega school due to the conflict of my schedule. I did visit the Noriega school whenever I had time which was mostly during the day.
I got a picture of your timeline with 8 Step. I am not going to inquire any further. Anyway enough of the history and let’s move on with helping to promote 8 Step on this forum.
If you wish to send me a private message regarding the ground mantis it is ok. I don’t really care to talk in private. I perfer to remain anonymous to the public for now. Sifu’s active instructors who are on this foruim should know who I am by my location as he has informed some or all of his instructors about me.
I am currently working on translating some of the 8 Step materials from chinese to english. It is a tedious process and I will present it to sifu when I finished. I will discuss with him on how he want it to be utilize.
Later,
chaotic and old8step,
Wow its so good to hear from the old school students. If I may chime in. to some comments made and answer some questions.
old 8step. i do not remember Jim, is he form buffalo?. i have been in the system since 1989 but have known Dean since he left SF 1987 he left when the school was upstairs on irving.
I met Danny shyuns right hand man or should i say kid. he was kicked out of the school right before i moved to noriega st. i have also met robert the photgrapher that shot shyuns oldtime stances. of the originals which i still have in possesion. i rember hearing about kamar he used to wear a brown uniform right? i think its the same guy.
also shyuns mercedes was black.
it si so good to hear form you guys please post soem more info and perhaps clear up alot of confusion about that system.
PS who was the guy who married the mexican girl and lived in ensenada mexico after leaving the irving school? he moved fairly well I also met him when he stopped in to the noriega school.
chaotic and old8step,
Wow its so good to hear from the old school students. If I may chime in. to some comments made and answer some questions.
old 8step. I do not remember Jim, is he from buffalo?. I have been in the system since 1989 but have known Dean since he left SF 1987 he left when the school was upstairs on irving.
I met Danny shyuns right hand man or should I say kid. he was kicked out of the school right before I moved to noriega st. I have also met robert the photgrapher that shot shyuns oldtime stances. of the originals which I still have in possesion. I rember hearing about kamar he used to wear a brown uniform right? I think its the same guy.
also shyuns mercedes was black.
it’ s so good to hear form you guys please post some more info and perhaps clear up alot of confusion about the system.
PS who was the guy who married the mexican girl and lived in ensenada mexico after leaving the irving school? he moved fairly well I also met him when he stopped in to the noriega school. thanks in advance
earthdragon
yes Jim was originally from Buffalo where he trained under Dean when he was stationed out here in he was in the navy or airforce. He stayed at Sifu’s house alot when he trained as his base was pretty far from the school.
Yes Danny was a kid a few years younger than I. I was gone before what happened with Danny happened. the Michael I speak of is the one who actually taught Danny most of his early mantis and is who I believe Danny used to demonstrate his techniques on for his 1st gold mantis. and yes the mercedes was black
Now i have read this forum but as both of you can tell I am not really up on what type of drama happend etc as I left many many years ago and actually what prompted me to research again was that i was driving down a st and saw an 8 step mantis school upon research it appears it is run by a Josh Stone? so i did a search on the net and up popped these forums.
I am happy to shed any light on whatever I can I can not comment on the things that happened I know nothing about. But from reading over some things it appears I am one of the few student’s on here not including chaotic and yourself who was around at a time when 8 step was still a very close tight knot group. No offense to any of the new students or sifu’s but I know during my time many days I was at the school 8 hours or more and would eat breakfeast lunch and dinner with sifu and my kung fu brothers so I feel that I do have some early insight to some things that might not have been brought to public etc.
old8step & EarthDragon,
It seems both of you were more around the same period than I was. So you both might know each other.
old8step - I am assuming that you live in the bay area. Do you still keep in touch with Sifu? What year did you leave the school? If you live in the bay area, do you keep in touch with Dean?
Josh Stone must be Sifu’s one of the biggest Internet contributing instructors if you can search him on the internet. Did you use google or yahoo? I don’t recall him contributing to this forum. What alias is he using in this forum?
wow what a reunion! LOL again it is good to hear from the old school students.
I still talk to Dean all the time he is still one of my best friends. He acutally lives in the sunset not far from the old school on irving. And was accepted to lern form John Chang but only went to 3 private classes as he works in LA 3 weeks out of the month.
Josh Stone was first silver mantis when I lived at the noriega school but has since went on to become a shrfu and runs a school not far from the bay area in
El Cerito.
The falling out of the ACMAF was when Shyun started caring more about the money then the quality.
The school burned down and he shortyly then afterward got divorced right after having to pay for anthony and his daughters college.
So financial straights indeed. he then invented a shrfu program that made it mandatory for every school to enroll 5 studetns every year into this program to help widen and grow the system.
However it costs 5,000.00 per student that of course went to him not the school owner.
This put some some contrversy in the original old time students and school owners which at the time were all in NY with the ecception of jack in NJ, peter ray in AL and Keving loftus all deans students.
1 year later he made it mandatory to purchase a 14kt gold mantis pin that wasnt really 14kt gold but plated brass and a 400.00 uniform for all the instructors.
Shortly afterward the four of us quit the federation and moved on then a short time later he had 8 new schools and 8 shrfu’s who were promoted in only 1 years time and can’t fight thier way out of a paper bag.
It’s shame really I loved my shrfu and spent many nights laughing, learning, and enjoying his teachings and company. But as they say money can make a person do strange things… be well
chaotic yes i live in the bay area but have not had contact with any of sifu’s old students for many years. I left in 1993 not due to any conflict but due to the fact i moved away for college in southern california but would frequently visit whenever i was up in the bay area as for Josh Stone I did not do a search on him i did a search on 8 step preying mantis on yahoo
Earth Dragon:
Who is John Chang that name is familar? A silver mantis? I am not familiar with that was that part of the new system? sifu’s in one year time? are you sure? not to doubt you ofcourse because I was not around but I remember it taking some people 1 year just to get their first gold mantis and that was just punching and hands to even the kicks. I remember hearing that the school burned down and actually I didn’t even know there were any 8 step schools in the bay area until recently.
Well great to hear from you all chaotic i got your pm and replied as always if any one has any questions i can answer on 8 step feel free to ask
EarthDragon,
I know you heard this from many people in this forum. “Why are you still carrying on with the emotional baggage regarding Master James Sun?” I have read your life story many times over in various postings. You have been doing this for over 2 years now. Please “PLEASE” snap out it and focus on proliferating 8 Step or other martial arts. Sooner or later this bitterness will eat you from inside out and the sands of time are running out on you.
If you still have any love left for Sifu, leave it behind you just like what Dean is doing. Dean is keeping it quiet because he still has respect for Sifu. This why Master Sun’s respect for Dean has not changed and still gives him credit for helping to spread 8 Step.
To me Master James Sun was always the same teacher from when he started teaching up until now, but he grown much wiser throughout the years. I know he is not a perfect teacher, but then nobody is perfect. We can only strive for perfection which is a lifelong journey.
Please note the correction on your post. Sifu did not pay for his children’s education. It was actually his ex-wife that did the paying for their education. When both children left for college, she sold their house and used the money made on the sale to fund their college education.
Sifu is saving up his money for his dream “Mantis Mountain”. He doing outside investments and some of the money collected from the schools to make this dream happen. Within the next 10 years his dream will become reality.
Old8step,
How long did you study with Sifu and what years? Just out curiosity, you seem young by your dates “late 20’s early 30’s”. By your timeline, you probably know Sifu’s son quite well. Around late ’92 & early ’93 Anthony was often hanging around schools after his middle school let out and sometimes in the evenings depending whether he has finish his schoolworks. I encouraged him to starting learning more from his Dad. His kicks were starting to look like how Sifu kicks. At that time he was more into video games and other kid stuff.
you are correct i am in my thirties now i started training with Sifu when I was 18 and trained full time until I was 20 at which time i moved away to attend a university but i frequently trained during the next 2 years on my visits up 1-2 a month and would continue to practices my techniques and endruances etc while I was away
Hey Old8step,
If you were training fulltime you should know Anthony. I am curious as to your recollection of the young master to be. Before I left his kicks were excellent for his age. He started to look like how Sifu would kick. He also pickup an impressive ground leg sweeping techniques. I wondered how he progressed throughout the years.
old8step, you said…
Who is John Chang that name is familar? A silver mantis? I am not familiar with that was that part of the new system? sifu’s in one year time? are you sure? not to doubt you ofcourse because I was not around but I remember it taking some people 1 year just to get their first gold mantis and that was just punching and hands to even the kicks. I remember hearing that the school burned down and actually I didn’t even know there were any 8 step schools in the bay area until recently.
John Chang was one of master Wei’s oldest students. Trained with him over 30 years and lives in San Jose’.
the new system has 4 sash colors, 5 silver levels, 5 gold, 5 shrfu, 5 master levels. So far only Dean has surpassed 5th gold.
Yes it used to take many years to get to the 1st grade but now with the selling out comercial version you can go from learning how to bow, horse stance and middle punch to joint locks and the 8 long and 8 short. Such a shame to water down such a great system for finacial gain. but that seems to be the way with many schoools and mcdojo these days. everybody wants the results but few are willing to put in the time. hel we have easy mac and cheese!!! could mac and cheese be any easier to make for pete’s sake?
Second Plea To EarthDragon
EarthDragon,
Once again - "[B]I know you heard this from many people in this forum. “Why are you still carrying on with the emotional baggage regarding Master James Sun?” I have read your life story many times over in various postings. You have been doing this for over 2 years now. Please “PLEASE” snap out it and focus on proliferating 8 Step or other martial arts. Sooner or later this bitterness will eat you from inside out and the sands of time are running out on you.
If you still have any more respect left for Sifu, leave it behind you just like what Dean is doing. Dean is keeping it quiet because he still has respect for Sifu. This is why Master Sun’s respect for Dean has not changed and still gives him credit for helping to spread 8 Step."[/B]
Mr. Haley Sir, everytime we hear the same story over and over again. It is getting all of us depress. Please for the sake of this forum move on and discuss Mantis related martial arts that will help and encourage all of us.