5 Tigers All Kung Fu Championship 2005

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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Dear Masters, Sifus, Coaches, Students, and Spectators

I would like to cordially invite you to our 2nd Annual Jow Ga 5 Tigers All Kung Fu Championship which will be held on June 4th, 2005 at Howard Community College Columbia MD. This is a traditional kung fu tournament for ALL STYLES of kung fu. Hosting this event is our way of contributing to the promotion of traditional kung fu tournaments in the United States. We hope that you will join us at this event and help promote traditional kung fu tournaments for our students and future generations. Last years tournament was featured in Martial Hero Magazine, Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine, and Action Magazine.

We are introducing several new and exciting divisions to this year’s competition in an effort to showcase the uniqueness of Chinese Martial Arts. The new divisions are as follows:

8 ft. LONG POLE DIVISION
Ng Long Bot Gwa Gwan, Luk Dim Bun Gwan, Bot Gwa Gwan, etc.
5th Son 8 Triagram Staff, 6 Half Point Staff, 8 Triagram Staffs.

Here we would like to showcase a weapon and skill seldom seen in today’s tournaments with a division where all of its’ principals can be appreciated and promoted. Advanced only this year.

CHI SAO – LEI TAI - Here we are taking Chi Sao to another level literally! Competitors in this division will really test their skill while performing Chi Sao on top of the table or Lei Tai.

LANCE WEAPON DIVISION
Kwan Do, Tiger Fork, Horse Cutting Lance, Monk Spade, Wolf Teeth Cudgel, Long Axe, Big Tridents, etc. - Here we would like to showcase the heavy Lance and the unique power, strength, endurance, and skill necessary to perform these heavier weapons in a division where they can be appreciated. Advanced only this year.

SPECIAL WEAPONS DIVISION
Chop Stick & Bowl, Fan, Cane, Cymbals, Bench, Rake, Hoe, Rings, Shovel, Pipe, etc.

Here we would like to bring out and showcase those seldom seen personal weapons of kung fu. Here is a division that will highlight the uniqueness and versatility of weapons in Chinese Martial Arts. Again offering a specific division where these types of weapons can compete and be appreciated. Advanced only this year.

FLEXIBLE WEAPONS – Rope Dart, Three & Two Sectionals, Steel Whips, etc.

MUK YAN JONG DIVISION – WOODEN DUMMY
This division is offered to highlight the skills of the Wing Chun Wooden Dummy Form.

FORMS APPLICATION DIVISION
Here we would like to promote the kung fu techniques and applications in forms. This will be a two-man competition. Competitors will compete with a sequence from their styles empty hand form and its’ applications. This will certainly be a challenging division, but with your support we hope to encourage the use and practice of kung fu techniques instead of brawling. Our ultimate goal is that with the promotion of this division we may see more kung fu techniques transfer into the Continuous Sparring matches. We are hopeful that after students witness this division, they will have a better appreciation for the long hours of form practice. Please visit the rules section of the tournament website and view our simple, fair, and straightforward rules for this division.

Honorary Chairman: Grand Master Chan Man Cheung, Hong Kong

Honorary Advisors:

Jow Biu Chinese Boxing Association, Hong, Kong

Chung Oi Jow Biu Martial Arts Sports Association, Hong Kong

Jow Tin Chinese Martial Arts Association, Hong Kong

Master Hoy K. Lee, USA

Master Deric Mims, USA

Masters Hon Lee, USA

Master Michael Ek Eng Guan, Singapore

Master Frank Greinacher, Germany

Master Reza Momenan, USA

Master Troyon Williams, USA

Master Thomas Tang, USA

Master Charles Middleton, USA

Tournament Website: http://www.jowtigers.com/tournament/index.html

Or www.jowtigers.com

If you have any questions please contact Sifu Johnson via email: jowga1@aol.com or telephone (410) 992-6673.

Best regards,

Sifu Derek Johnson “Cheung Tai Lik” - Tournament Director

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"Here we would like to promote the kung fu techniques and applications in forms. This will be a two-man competition. Competitors will compete with a sequence from their styles empty hand form and its’ applications. This will certainly be a challenging division, but with your support we hope to encourage the use and practice of kung fu techniques instead of brawling. Our ultimate goal is that with the promotion of this division we may see more kung fu techniques transfer into the Continuous Sparring matches. We are hopeful that after students witness this division, they will have a better appreciation for the long hours of form practice. Please visit the rules section of the tournament website and view our simple, fair, and straightforward rules for this division. "

OMG

Am I reading this right? You think that by making people do short sections from forms, against another guy (?), they will transpher this into sparring?

You and your wish to promote “a better appreciation for the long hours of form practice” are crap!

A better way would be to put gloves on both guys, send them in to kill each other, and award the contest to the guy who strikes the most ‘tiger’ stances!!

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LioKault

i am not going to get involved in one of these silly little online fights. i don’t practice keyboard kung fu and i am not a keyboard tiger. obviously you intended to disrespect me with your punkish comment while you hide behind your computer.

my name is Derek Johnson. my address and telephone number are in my previous post, so if you would like to discuss this topic in person, you know where to find me. So, anything else you have to say online will only make you look more like the little p*nk you are. i think you should respect the forum rules and its’ members by disrespecting a person to his face or shut up!

you got the wrong one you clown.

i would like to apologize to anyone else reading this topic. This is my only response to LioKault because i have already wasted enough time.

Have a nice day Pu*K
Derek Johnson :rolleyes:

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You are your wish to promote “a better appreciation for the long hours of form practice” are crap!

Well gee liokault, who appointed you grand marshal of Poop On Your Parade Day?

Since you have such a low opinion of what sounds like an interesting experiment, why not enter and show everybody what a great little expert you are?

tailik, thanks for the heads-up on this tournament. It sounds very interesting (esp. the long pole and special weapons division, it’s worth going just to see these).

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Is this full contact fighting, or just ‘chi sao on a lei tai’?
Full contact chi sao with takedowns wearing MMA style gloves would make it interesting. Otherwise, why bother, it would just be the same old… just on a platform.

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Wow that sounds great…I will bring a team…now how big that team will be I cannot guarantee, but I’ll start telling everybody at my school(s)…

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[B]i am not going to get involved in one of these silly little online fights. i don’t practice keyboard kung fu and i am not a keyboard tiger. obviously you intended to disrespect me with your punkish comment while you hide behind your computer.

my name is Derek Johnson. my address and telephone number are in my previous post, so if you would like to discuss this topic in person, you know where to find me. So, anything else you have to say online will only make you look more like the little p*nk you are. i think you should respect the forum rules and its’ members by disrespecting a person to his face or shut up!

you got the wrong one you clown.[/B]

If you advertise an event, don’t do it on a forum that lets others express there view, especially if your weak enough to be offended by others views.

I’m not about to phone you, as I’m the UK…by all means e-mail me for my contact details.

…

Ok lets look at this:

you said:

Competitors will compete with a sequence from their styles empty hand form and its’ applications. This will certainly be a challenging division, but with your support we hope to encourage the use and practice of kung fu techniques instead of brawling.

This is going in the wrong direction. If kung fu is degrading into brawling, the answer is not to ban the brawling and promote the failing kung fu!!!

You also said:

Our ultimate goal is that with the promotion of this division we may see more kung fu techniques transfer into the Continuous Sparring matches.

So by doing preset moves within a very tight rule set, your going to put more “kung fu techniques” into continuous sparring?

Hmmmm, yes, if you ban brawling, aggression and competitiveness your plan may just see recognisable kung fu in sparring…except it wont be sparring now will it?

You also said:

We are hopeful that after students witness this division, they will have a better appreciation for the long hours of form practice.

This bit is the real crap on the cake for me!!

What your saying here is that guys who have been doing forms as the main part of their training, but have no real fighting skill, can take heart by watching guys move through neutered two person patterns that you will call sparring.

What you should be doing is putting gloves on them, pushing them into the ring and beat them down. This will show that, while forms have there place, if you want to fight you need to train in fighting, not in forms.

SaMantis

Well gee liokault, who appointed you grand marshal of Poop On Your Parade Day?

Its a forum. I do not need to be appointed anything before I post my view here.

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Mutant - thanks for your comment. it is definitely something to consider. positive comments and/or feedback are welcomed and that is one reason the new tournament events were listed.

A difference of opinion doesn’t require or permit disrespect on topics and discussions. i don’t think any decent person should accept or expect disrespect as a requirement when they respectfully make a post on forums or send out invitations. When we invite guest to my home for dinner,i don’t think the person being invited has the right to disrespect me or my family because they don’t like a particular dish. My Sifu and parents taught me respect. :wink: where i come from we take disrespect seriously because someone can get seriously hurt if they don’t. you expect children to be disrespectful without provocation, not mature men or kung fu people.

SaMantis - thanks for your support. i will be up in the boston area next month

Akhilleus - Wow thanks for coming out. i see your a fellow Marylander. Hopefully we can do this every year and keep things moving in our area.

For those who don’t know me, we decided to have this tournament so that we could contribute to the promotion of traditional kung fu for our ancestors, students, and future generations. There has been a decline in tournaments and competition in our region, so we decided to stick our necks out and contribute since we as a kung fu community are only hurting ourselves with silly fighting and politics.

In every division, we have had the honor to have sifus and students from around the world contribute ideas and suggestions in order to create divisions and rules which may help the development of this tournament in its’ second year. somethings are definitely experimental, but most good things were discovered by experiments. Fortunately 99% of the people are picking up what i am putting down. :slight_smile:

Take the Forms Application Division. why am i getting such a great response through emails? Maybe they smell what i’m cooking? :smiley: i guess some people are missing the point?

as i mentioned before my name is Derek Johnson and everybody who loves and respects kung fu are invited and welcomed at our new tournament. we had alot of fun last year.

i have some friends from the UK coming too :wink:

Stay safe and take care
Derek Johnson
www.jowtigers.com

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About the applications division…

Is this two man sets or is it demonstrate a single person set and then show people a few application? What’s the judging criterea for this, and can you better explain how it will help people transfer kungfu directly to the sparring? Honestly, from the way I’m reading it, it doesn’t sound any different than how most all non-fighting schools train allready. Can you clarify the reasoning and how the division will be run?

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Also Chi Sao on a table… doesn’t that add unnecesary danger and take away from the skills of the competitors? It’s cool in a Prodigal Son flashback kind of way, but someone slipping on the table and getting injured by hitting the edge is kind of a crappy way to lose (lots of cheap injuries in Letai san shou too).

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One question: Will there be full contact continous fighting?

If so, I will go and can probbaly bring a dozen folks with me. But please, don’t tell me yes, have m drive there, pay, sit around through forms all day and then tell me know hitting the face, no hitting the head, or no this or that.

No groin strikes. Even no throwing if these kung fu guys don’t want to get dirty, but is this going to be worth the time?

Also, chi sauing on the table, in my opinion, does nothing but enforce bad habits. Mobility is most important. I got disqualified from the Fe Hung for face contact but when you put me on a table with a guy who has 50 lbs on me, what do you want me to do? He wins the paticake game. And I can’t go anywhere, so you have to hit the guy.

I’ll chi sau also if there is full contact allowed. And again, I can bring a dozen folks who would do that to.

It’s just that I swore off these type of things, but a chance to play is a chance to play but full contact sparring is mandatory minimum.

Please consider it. If the idea of full contact sparring is too much to consider, perhaps other things need to be taken into consideration, such as: is this a martial arts tournament or a gymnastics exhibition.

Sorry for all this pre-emptive hostility. Just got a flood of bad memories rushing back to me and I started my day at 6:00 a.m. with my sewage exploding through my shower drain and here it is mid-day, and looks like moe $hit is on the way.

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Hey Brad this is a partner division.

please go to the rules section at www.jowtigers.com/tournament/ this will hopefully answer some of your questions pertaining to the rules and judging criteria.

The idea for this division is quite simple. If you practice kung fu forms, which many people do, hopefully you understand the applications and train to use them. I suspect this is not the case in many schools. The opinion of many instructors is that students are spending a lot of time practicing forms without gaining the rich knowledge. Take a style like Hung Ga and one of its’ forms. With a qualified instructor, a student can learn and unlock many valuable aspects of fighting from the Hung Ga form. When i use the term qualified instructor, i am referring to someone who understands real fighting.

It goes without saying that you must also stand in front of another man or opponent and fight/spar to complete the learning “cycle of fighting”. The so called “non-fighting” schools may not fight because they don’t have or know how to apply the techniques in their forms. Anytime we talk about application or forms you always have those people who always bring up “getting in the ring”, “putting on gloves”, and other phrases pertaining to fighting or testing skills are just preaching to the choir. what are these guys Rocket Scientist? This discussion and division is simply just a step to prepare people to get in the ring. those guys who have been successful at winning fights mainly due to strength and heart will have a problem when they face someone with greater strenght, heart, and TECHNIQUE. because of my traditional training, i refer to forms training as technique training and not just trying to look pretty.

When you teach a student how to fight do you just put gloves on him and say fight or do you teach him techniques and then put him in the ring to sharpen his skills? i should also mention that i come from a school in which fighting was mandatory and have much experience fighting from the streets of Wash. D.C. to Europe, so i am not speaking from the position of someone who only does forms.

A person who only practices form without fighting is limited.
A person who only fights without utilizing techniques is limited.
one reason forms were created was to pass on techniques for fighting :wink: .

How this can transfer into sparring divisions:
My optimistic personality believes that when students come to tournaments and see that some of the forms they practice have some pretty good techniques for fighting, maybe they will take a closer look at the arsenal of techinques right in front of them, maybe they will have a desire to join the sparring divsions and maybe they will truly demonstrate the meaing of kung fu. The truth is that many people don’t spar/fight because they don’t know what to do.

maybe you disagree that kung fu forms have techniques which are valuable for fighting, but many people do think that forms have usable techniques. this division only demonstrates a part of the “learning cycle of fighting”, which consist of learning techinques and then putting them to the test in front of an opponent. this division is for people who understand the traditional purpose of forms practice. We have to understand that during the time and atmosphere that these forms were created, the people creating these forms had to fight and back it up in life and death situations and didn’t settle disputes with sparring. some of their real experiences were passed on through these forms.

We can discuss what makes a good fighter until the end of time. Lets be real, without real combat outside the ring or tournament, all the divisions in tournaments are subjective and theory. we just do our best to prepare ourselves for fighting without killing ourselves by practicing various elements of fighting.

Do you think that people who fight in tournaments will actually fight the same way they do in the ring in a real fight? The timing and intent is much different in a real fight. in the ring you get maybe a swelling, broken nose, brusie, etc withing maybe 3 rounds. in a real fight you can get your head split open within 2 seconds and lets see where a fighters heart is now.

those who think brawling is cool should not waste their time with forms/techniques. brawling is a subjective word also. my definition of brawling is mindless fighting without technique, soley dependent on heart, strength, and luck!
In a real fight your heart can be your friend or foe depending on how you use it.

When it comes to fighting with skill, mind, heart, strength, courage, and technique, you can call it what you want but it’s definitely not brawling.

in short, this division is a promotional idea to simply demonstrate and preserve the wealth of knowledge within forms. The reason we chose to have competitors use techniques from their styles forms was for accountability and to have some kung fu people take a second look at what is available to them.

The chi sao table question is quick:
its only adults, not too high, there are are spotters, and it will enhane the testing of skills required in chi sao. the edge of the table is padded and rounded i with not only spotters, but also matts on the floor.

thanks for taking the time to read all this stuff Brad. i enjoyed answering your question and if you have any other questions or suggestions please post them. you are allowing me to clarify the reason we incorporated certain divisions.

Finally, i like to think of forms application division as the missing piece of the learning cycle during tournaments. We perform forms at tournaments, why? We have a fighting division, but then we have rules, which restrict us, and call ourselves fighters, why?

Take care
Derek :slight_smile:

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“Please consider it. If the idea of full contact sparring is too much to consider, perhaps other things need to be taken into consideration, such as: is this a martial arts tournament or a gymnastics exhibition.”

Why does it have to be full contact or nothing at all? How many kung fu tournaments have you ever been to where only full contact is offered and nothing else outside of full contact? There will be continuous sparring divisions. They are not full contact but they ain’t no sippin tea neither. For legit full contact there is a big liability and insurance issue as well as in some events and states, sanctioning by the state athletic commission that make it less than worth while for most to promote such.

The venue has been laid out, if one doesn’t like it, they can promote their own in the manner they think it should be done. The tournament was a success last year and likely everyone and more will return this year.

As far as chi sau on a lei tai. A lei tai is arguably bigger than the square normally provided for chi sau divisions, mobility is not an issue. The risks are laid out in front of the competetors, those that enter do so knowingly. There may probably be even more than just the lei tai chi sau division for those that want it. Sifu Johnson is not impossible to get a hold of for such suggestions.

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Ray sorry about your sewage man!

There is NO Full Contact sparring this year. The continuous sparring division does allow contact to the headgear, but not the face. We are considering it for next years tournament when we move to a larger gym so thanks for the input. We are a 2nd year tournament so we plan to build up to that level. i can appreciate your comments because my dream is to promote Full Contact tournaments. Actually i would like to be the Don King of Full Contact Tournaments without the hair.

The chi Sao table idea that was actually put to us by a significant number of Chi Sao/Wing Chun Sifus. last year the chi sao division on the floor was small, but since we added the table as requested, we have already gotten confirmations from competitors which far exceed last year chi sao division. we aim to please although we can’t please everybody.

brother number 9 has some pretty good points also.

Ray the groin strike thing brother , well some of the guys may have wives or girlfriends (maybe both) they have to take care of and we don’t want to risk having someone who won’t be able to take care of business and make babies after their match :wink:

i hope you will make it Ray and we will consider your idea for next year when i can maybe afford the insurance for full contact.

Derek

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Sifu Johnson,

Yeah I’m only about 30 min. away from Howard Community College, so it works out great for me and my classmates/students…especially now that ying yang is gone…

On the whole continuous sparring issue…

90% of the continuous sparring I have seen is crap…I’m not talking about the skill level, I’m talking about how the rules were followed…you have two guys pounding on eachother and breaking every rule in the book, and usually the one that breaks the rules more, wins…any step to change continuous, such as Sifu Johnson’s new division, is a step in the right direction…look at ying yang a couple years ago, when a fight broke out in the continuous division…if those guys wanted to do throws, there is something called “San Shou”…if they wanted to keep fighting on the ground, they should have done MMA…

Continuous is not full contact, nor should it be…they both have their place…let’s make sure we keep them separate, so you don’t have some weekend warrior get in there thinking, “Now I can test my skills in a safe and fun atmosphere!” and some kid across the ring who should be doing full-contact but doesn’t have the balls come in and knock out this poor guy…

OK end of rant…the tournament sounds great, I was just venting b/c of some bad experiences I’ve had at tournaments in the past…

I haven’t met Sifu Johnson or been to his tournament yet, but from the material I have read about his tournament, I feel confident that his ideas could bring about a much needed change in the ugly world of “continuous”. I’m looking forward to it…I’m considering doing continuous…I’ll definitely do full-contact when they get that…

and if you guys don’t like the new divisions…well let’s wait and see what the results are before we bash it…ok?

EDIT: Oh, and I’ve done Muay Thai, San Shou, Kuoshu, MMA, Kickboxing, Continuous, etc…Continuous was probably one of the most brutal because with the others I got in there with a clear expectation that dude would be trying to take my head off…with continuous I didn’t realize that until I got rocked…

Again, I want to emphasize that I am bashing continuous at other tournaments…not the 5 Tigers one…I’m trying to show that continuous pretty much sucks so it’s great that this tournament is actually taking steps to correct that problem…

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hello everyone here are some highlights from last year’s tournament, which was our first. http://www.jowtigers.com/gallery.html

take care
Derek

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Thanks for the reply.

I was in a rush running out the door to grab lunch and think I was misunderstood… I was assuming no groing strikes (thank God) and no throws. No groin strike is universal. I wil never poke the eye or strike the ball unless attacked and need to in order to protect myself.

Anyway, best of luck with your tournament and if the rules change next year I will eneter.

Brothernumber9, I stay away from those events because they just don’t ring true to me. I got booted from the Fe Hung when I got pared up with a guy who was 255 … I was 190 … somehow we were both “Heavy” and there was no “super heavy” and no scales anyway.

He liked to charge in and use his weight. Legally hooking the side of his head would only allow him in and run me over. A heavy straight would keep him honest but he didn’t care to block and got popped … 1 warning. He did it again, got popped again and I got the boot.

To me, this is no fun. Also, going to the ground and stopping and getting a warning for taking someone down, is also no fun FOR ME. It’s not what I’m looking for. Generally, I’m finding a growing group of folks who want to make these things as free as possible, knowing that none of us are assasins and trying to keep it safe.

Fighting in a tournament under 'Advanced" – and this being a martial arts tournament – to me, means being able and willing to accept someone who wants to kick and punch you how and where and how hard he wants and you being able to manage it.

If there is no technique, then call it brawling (God knows I have). Call it street fighting. If there seems method to the madness then call it technique. But I think its dangerous to point the finger from a “high level” of perfection. An “advnaced” martial artist should be able to face come what may.

Perhaps this title “advanced” is given out too easily. Every Tom, **** and Harry that owns a closet full of gear will go “fight” when you can only tag each others chest guard. Hell, my panzy surfer friends are willing to do more than that after a few pints of ****.

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Hey Ray

no big deal, i totally understand your desire to fight full contact. we will consider a full contact division next year and definitely make it as safe and organized as possible.

i met a guy during a competition who was competing in his first full contact match and lost one of his eyes during this match. i don’t think he would say it was worth his eye. watching this guy warm up i could tell he had no business in the ring with a true advanced fighter. i think full contact matches are great teaching tools if done the right way with qualified and well trained fighters. there is a risk of getting your neck broken or serious injury because you were not trained and conditioned properly for the fight. in my professional career i have had to make several trips to coroners office for guys who were killed during regular fist fights. when you have seen a skull cracked open by the coroner and witnessed the damage caused to the brain from trauma like puss and other white fluids ooze from the brain due to swelling caused by blunt force to the skull, you have a very clear understanding and respect for the consequences of fighting in general.

take care :slight_smile:
Derek

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Derek,
I don’t want to mess up your thread but I really feel I must comment. I fought full contact under different rules for many years, and I’ve promoted full contact events since 1994

If someone gets injured, it comes down to only two things, sometimes both at the same time

  1. The person wasn’t adequately prepard to fight
    and/or
  2. The people running the event didn’t organize it and run it properly

My rule of thumb, people who have never fought, and don’t train fighters, have no business offering “fighting” competitions. Experience with the USA WKF and others pretty much proves the point.

Someone losing an eye to a match is pretty much preposterous, in addition to obviously being tradgic…

That all being said, I can also say that “point fighting” is usually the bloodiest event known to man…

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Some one losing an eye is surley somthing we would have heard of?
Can anyone find a link to anything about it?

Also the guy who took his eye out had probably practaced this move during his forms a thousand times, but “unlocked” it at a bad time.