Based upon my experience, I would hazard to guess that the eye was not “plucked out” but rather “lost” as a result of injury. This sort of injury can happen in bare knuckle, Tai Yim has one “lazy eye” due to his HK bare knuckle days…
Bare knuckle is, pardon me, RETARDED and anyone who tries to promote it falls into category #2… add to that the fact that the eye injuries usually also happen not only because of the bare knuckles but because the ref’s don’t control the action or stop the matches in time…
The key here for me is that on one hand you talk about validating training in forms, then go on to say that guys are getting hurt due to lack of proper trainning!!!
Train properly by all means, train in forms by all means, but dont think that training in forms (alone of mostly) will prepare you for full contact or street situations.
since this pertains to tournaments,i think your comments are appropriate. It seems that we agree on this topic and i was hoping to get a response such as yours. i am sure there are other threads about this subject. if not, maybe there should be one. with your experience i am sure we could learn alot from you about full contact tournaments. i am not really into the whole forum thing, but it is necessary these days to promote traditional tournaments. unfortunately on these forums you run into annoying little trolls, who would rather make dumb a$$ comments instead of having respectful discussions or debates.
By the way, my regards to you and your classmates on the loss of your Sifu. coincidently i had been meaning to call you because one of your guys moved down here and stopped by our school last week. he mentioned that your Sifu had a picture of my Jo Si Jow Biu and i wanted to ask you about this.
Earlier i mentioned the “learning cycle of fighting”. i clearly explained that form practice can be used as technique practice then i mentioned that the other part of the cycle was actual fighting or sparring. please show me where i mentioned training in forms alone. so it appears to me that you have no point.
guys getting hurt due to lack of training and forms practice are to different issues. please re-read what i wrote. when i refer to proper training, think that most fighters would naturally assume that i was talking about physical conditioning, skill conditioning, and of course ring or sparring time. again you are writing before thinking.
now, we can have a respectful discussion or debate about anything you like or you can continue making an a$$ out of yourself with pointless comments. the interesting thing about you is that within your anal comments you bring up some good issues for discussions, although they have been obviously rebutted, your points could actually lead to a nice discussion if you weren’t so disrespectful. how old are you 12? by being disrespectful to ar man without provocation, you are showing everyone reading that you have some serious issues and need some help. i do profiling for a living and in my professional judgement you need to get a life.
if you can’t chill out, then maybe you should not read or participate in this thread. there are many other threads that you can participate in and voice your weak opinions. i’ve gotten enough emails from people who are tired of you so go away and play in your little sand box. The next time i am in the UK, which will probably be this fall, i would be happy to meet you and anyone with you to discuss respect. just send me your name and address and i’ll take care of the rest. i have many brothers in the UK who will be glad to show me around.
now there are people reading this post who know i speak from experience and can back up my words. i have done so for many years, but just when i thought those days were over, i run into little trolls like you who want to pull me back. i am sure they also know what a respectful person that i am and that it is a shame for me to have to deal with guys like you on any level.
i thought forums were so supposed to be fun information sharing. it doesn’t mean we have to agree, but it does mean that we can be civil. you are not on my maturity level so i am suggesting that you just go away. i must admit that you are starting to amuse me from my professional stand point.
I was on your website tonight at work and while I found a lot of info on said tournament, I could not find a flyer per se, to put up at my schools…there were a bunch of things I probably could have used but honestly I don’t think I am allowed to print out something w/ that much ink at work…can you mail us flyers? Or better yet let me stop by one day and pick one or two up, since I’m real close and that way we could meet if you are in…is that cool?
You said in your first post: Our ultimate goal is that with the promotion of this division we may see more kung fu techniques transfer into the Continuous Sparring matches. We are hopeful that after students witness this division, they will have a better appreciation for the long hours of form practice.
And yet you said nothing about the appreciation of: physical conditioning, skill conditioning, and of course ring or sparring time. in your post, you only mentioned a appreciation of hours of forms.
And yet your the one making personal insults here, and cyber challenges buddy
Experience you say, you still haven’t evolved past the ‘its not kung fu because it looks like brawling’ stage yet guy.
Fun, sometimes, sharing, sometimes…civil, occasionally…mostly just repetitive
I think part of the problem is this … a tournament says there will be “sparring” and that means a lot of things to a lot of people.
But if two high school football programs schedule to “have a game” both teams will expect, on opening kick off, that they will be running at each other with full speed and slamming helmets and throwing shoulders and basically trying to pop each other as hard as they can. Do injuries happen? Of course they do! It’s a voilent activity, playing football. You know this when you join up for the team and have to tackle a thousand guys during tryouts and basically get the hell beat out of you. You know what to expect.
But why is it when MA get together to “spar” often times people look at you sideways for popping them? Hit someone while chi sauing and it seems like a capital offense … this is martial arts, right?
So my point is, maybe we’d be better off if all the degrees of “sparring” or “testing” or “playing” is kept within ones own training hall and make it universally known that crossing hands with someone outside the school, in a competitive environment, means bring your A game or prepare for a potential violent injury.
Of course this is extreme, but it brings me back to, why at a MA tournment full contact isn’t a given, taken for granted?
There’s a 1,000 folks ready to stwist and twirl and swing shiney aluminum and do mini-kung fu movie two-man sets, but why no “put the gloves on and lets go”? That is the finsihed product. That’s what counts at the end of the day. Not how low you can go in your split while shooting out your spear.
Man you are too predictable and entertaining. i can see how you operate, you like to make false statements hoping that the person reading your post hasn’t read all the previous post which clearly show that you have not point. Why do you continue these shenanigans? have i hurt your feelings? i hope that the following points will end this so that you stop embarrassing yourself. I can tell your one of those people that just likes to argue about nothing.
LOL - yes you are making me laugh
“veil threats” you need to look this up in the dictionary. i think it is probably clear to anyone reading that by your disrespectful behavior behind your computer you deserve an opportunity to behave the same way in the face of the person you unjustly disrespected. its’ clear to any martial artist that you need a lesson in respect by any means. i sincerely hope that you learn this verbally before someone smacks you. By the way you insult people without any reason on these threads, i can assume that you are either “The Baddest Man” on this earth or a fool. maybe you need to take a course in Communication 101. maybe i’m just old school, but i learned that martial arts was about respect and i believe this is true today. i can assume that you are young because of your ridiculous thread in another section about getting arrested. grow up.
Again, when someone mentions “conditioning” you don’t have to list every conditioning category of course fighting is a conditioning tool to prepare fighters for fights as well as other conditioning tools. If you read my previous post, you will see my mention of fighting. i asked you to show me where i said you need only forms practice to prepare for fights and you couldn’t do so while anyone who read my previous post can find my mention of combining fighting/sparring with your training. Again you have no point. let it go. Can’t you see that we actually agree on the importance of fight training. if you don’t like forms, then cool.
Forms traditionally are just sequences of techniques. if you only like to practice varied techniques you can still obtain the ultimate goal. Boxers don’t do forms, they practice individual techniques with their trainers and also independently so that when they spar or step into the ring, they have something to work with. universal
there are various ways to train for fighting. too much knowledge to mention in a post. So in the future, please don’t assume that someone disagrees with you or doesn’t recognize something because they don’t list every aspect of fighting in one post.
cyber challenges - i think you need to re-read your first post. if you don’t get what i am saying, then please don’t come out from behind your computer, visit the Washington D.C. Area, and disrespect someone to their face because i would bet my house that you would get b*tch slapped.
Although i must admit that you are starting to amuse me, i think that since you initiated this stuff, you should show everyone that you have some sense of “mo duk” (martial ettitiquete) and end this non-sense now. if you would like to pm me or visit me, i welcome you.
In the words of a famous American poet named Rodney King, “can’t we all just get along”
Ray i am all for full contact fighting. lkfmdc’s point is the key. the people fighting should be adequately prepared and the people coordinating the division should know what they are doing. when we bring full contact into our tournament, you can be assured that i will have qualified people running this division.
if a person steps onto the lei tai or ring, he should understand the consequences of such a sport. people mention fighting full contact in tournaments, but i am sure most of us have had many more full contact fights in class. Again i am all for full contact fighting, but i don’t think you should not look down or criticize someone who chooses not to full contact. i know many guys who don’t full contact, but can fight really well on the streets. i also know guys who call themselves full contact fighters, but can’t fight for real. i just mentioned all this to show respect for people who do and people who don’t.
If my student decides to fight full contact, i will first sit him down to discuss the consequences, so that if he steps into the ring and gets an injury, he will deal with it better.
second i would make sure that the people running the event have rules and other things in place to make it safe for my fighter.
third i would make sure that he was physically and mentally prepared.
B’More- thanks for the support. we will see you at Wongs. Good Luck to you also. the plug was cool
Akhilleus - stop by anytime, just give me a call a few minutes in advance to make sure i’m in the school. we will also have a printable flyer up on the site in about two days. if it fits your schedule, lets grab something to eat.
Tailik, I agree with you. And I didn’t intend any disrespect… just because you guys are choosing not to fight full doesn’t mean you can’t. The best fighter I know has never “competed” but has fought with some of the biggest names and some tough unknowns.
As for folks being adequately prepared, if they know that its going to be full they will prepare themselves or they won’t be interested. The problems I’ve found is when one group shows up wanting to play patty cake and another looking to knock some people down but they each didn’t know the others intent before hand – they were just used to what they normally qualify as “playing”.
Anyway, best of luck with your tournament. I can only assume it must be a big headache tying all those strings together.
O God, thanks for reminding me. I have to say my landlord hooked it up and there was no trace when I got home … I still did my own washing twice and then once more for good measure before taking a shower – and that was just to get it clean so I can get in there this weekend and really get at it.
It will be some time before I get that sight – and smell – out of my mind… now my cell phone is busted. Quite a strange week I’m having but at least a few girls have been hanging out. Got to take thje good with the bad I guess
Hey Sifu Jurak, man you just illustrated and explained what i am trying to do with this application division better than i did
i didn’t want to make it just an ordinary application division, so i thought it would be more interesting to tie the applications to the forms we practice and see so often at tournaments. i figured most people would see where i was going. Although this isn’t real fighting, competitors will be judged on their ability to demonstrate the potential effectiveness of their techniques.
i can remember when i would tell my sifu that I knew how to use a particular technique and he would then say to me “o.k. i am going to attack you and i want you to use your technique”. Sifu would attack me with the same intensity of a person attacking me in a real fight. If my Sifu knocked me down, i learned one of three things 1. i used the technique incorrectly 2. i need to work on that technique alittle more or 3. that technique doesn’t work
If i was able to use that technique against my classmate during drills or sparing it gave me confidence in certain techniques and a better appreciation for the forms which hold these techniques.
The competitors will be judged on a number of points like intent and intensity. if the attacks are slow and step by step they will probably not receive high scores. it’s hard to demonstrate realism when it isn’t a real fight, but we hope that the competitors will do their best to come as close as possible without killing each other. even in pre-set moves you can demonstrate the potential effectiveness of a technique in a real fight. When i use to box we would work on pre-set drills/techniques to prepare us for situations in the ring. The boxing coach could tell wether or not you could perform a specific technique effective enough against an opponent based on his experience. above all i think this division will be very interesting. it’s definitely experimental and we’re just trying to bring something alittle different and exciting to the kung fu tournament circuit. we may see how closely related many systems are to one another. Forms to me are like books of techniques. you just have to open it, know how to read it, and then apply it. i am sure that the competitors will be creative and probably teach us something that we can use to improve this division as well.
Sifu Jurak thanks for your support and input i was definitely a member of the NACMAF generation and i am sure we met there. man those were the good old days. i remember seeing your sifu there. Once your sifu pulled me and my classmate aside and demonstrated a particular bow, then he said “jow Biu” trying to tell us that this was the bow of our Si Jo Jow Biu. i have always wanted to ask you guys about your sifu’s relationship with Jow Biu. i think i saw in article with your sifu that he actually met jow biu?
if you get a chance, please go to our tournament website and check out the rules for Forms Application Division. We tried to keep the judging criteria simple.
hopefully we will see each other again in the future at another event.
Derek (tailik)
Hmmm, I think I have only ever refereed to your statements. Could you please post some of my untruths?
Ah, so you found the search function, I’m impressed.
Moving in the right direction here, but a bit different to your first post, to which my argument was against.
When you post in your first message, that doing sequences from forms against an opponent will reduce the degrading (my word) of kung fu into brawling (your word), I think its fair to assume you disagree with my view.
Hmmm your probably right, I would likely get a negative response. But in real terms my days of worrying about being ***** slapped by wushu guys are long past (I looked at your web site…lots of pics of forms and lion dances…not one of anything done against resistance! Not even semi contact).
LOL so you ‘challenge’ me…say your coming to the UK…don’t PM me, then ask me to contact you and travel to the USA!
Indeed, but welcome to the internet and the world of internet forums.
Liokault, sorry, but I think you kind of went overboard there for a minute. Tailik was just trying to get out some info for some people who may be interested. As a mature and respectable martial artist, it is left up to your descretion to ignore his information if you are uninterested.
Tailik, I have realized sinse I began reading and posting on this forum, if I post a point of view or piece of information, if others do not agree and begin to “flame” me, I simply ignore them. This will usually solve the problem. As you state you do not frequent forums, this is merely a piece of usefull information I wish to pass on to you.
I think you guys should just tap gloves and mark this one up to the good ol’ miscommunication. Many times it is difficult to fully display ones intentions in a limited space/time and in a literary format.
In addition Tailik, I am sad to say that I live on the west coast and am not available to travel. Otherwise I would go to your tourny, it sound quite interesting. It is nice to see people putting their time and resourses out there to help promote the art that each of us on this forum love.
