Zhao Bao Tai Qi Quan

Shaolin Master:

And then what, you ask rhetorically? Infinite years of refinement and, assuming your level is adequate, advanced techniques, principles, and forms.

At this stage, advanced, in my experience is refinement. You never leave the basic although you add more to it.

Sorry but I’ve seen too many forms collectors whose basics never show and their performance and execution completely distort the system. People laugh at them behind their back, if they know good martial arts principles or people become so duped that they make them into little “gods” and spend years trying to get the crumbs of advanced forms. Thats when lineage, history and paperwork become a shield, a marker. Seldom will these little “masters” demonstrate but strut around making judgements, wearing the look, spouting Chinese terms, claiming they are now on a spiritual level, claiming they can see the “wall of qi”, and in general, bullshhitting themselves and others. The payment is steep both in time and money and they would have been better off with practicing good basics and a form or two.

Naahhh, I’ve seen too many and the internet only feeds the frauds.

On that note, thank you. Are there tapes of this or even seminars? It sounds very interesting.

Do you train with the big spear or pole?

Any stance work?

Someone gave me the VCDs of one Zhaobao master (in Chinese and about a $1.80 a VCD if you buy it in China ) and the pan flute music and classical music background just kill me. However, his structure is very deep and good.

Also Roam about the Taiji World has a couple of demonstrations of Zhaobao.

As I said before, regardless of lineage claims, Zhaobao style stands on its own and I am glad it is becoming public.

Thank you again, and keep the info coming.

"Note in Zhao Bao push hands is practised differently to other TJQ the emphasis is on one touch and remove, "

Meaning that this is an ASPECT of push hands that you emphasize. There are many aspects of Taijiquan and Tuisho. It is uncommon for someone to do all of them…almost impossible actually…but that does not make what they do ‘different’ in any sense other than seeing a different side.

A common statement in Taijiquan is “Our way is different or unique” and in my experience, this may mean flavor or a small detail but there are still broad categories things fall into.

"we don’t practise single push hands too much if at all (different teachers different levels of progress). "

If this a one hand version…that is a beginner level exercise…most people don’t do that much of it after they move to two handed anyway.

"The emphasis is on comprehending the incoming energy and neutralising or dispersing it at the same instant. "

Listening and neutralising…nothing different there…just the fact that you try to get into the early handling faster… In actuality, there are times it is appropriate to neutralize as soon as you can…and times where it is better to wait a bit… since it may REALLY over commit the opponent… We all need to do both.

"Some Taiji styles wait then neautralise in Zhao Bao we are in constant motion with the ability to attack or defend at any moment of the motion. "

I wouldn’t say styles…I would say people… All Taijiquan expressed according to Taijiquan principles is constantly changing. At higher levels, attack is combined with defend in ALL styles of wushu…

“Stepping is vital as well and this is emphasised, rooting is that of constantly readjusting equilibrium without the facet of incoming forces…etc…”

This is stating a fundamental concept of all wushu as well.

There is more similar in all of what we do than differences. The similarities make us have something in common. The differences make it interesting and beautiful.

GLW,

Different = Seeing a different side ( we both may drive cars the basis is the same but the emphasis is different so we say we drive cars differently! )

On a macro level everything is the same, but this is not what we emphasise in MA or else all styles are in essence the same (which I agree to in some relative manner).

True, maybe other styles only do one handed initially but some of the Zhao Bao teachers do not even teach one handed excercises or even the stationary methods moving straight to moving double (whereas others probably recently do)…again not different as such just a differing emphasis/approach.

Again Listening/neutralising nothing different but our emphasis and approach does so.

I have seen many taiji players stay still and wait often atime in traditional zhao bao it is to be moving around constantly similarily to ErLangQuan or ZiranMen (different shape similar concept). Recently I’ve seen people practice waiting but not in the past. Again the emphasis …of course constant change is a fundamental principle.

Stepping I may not have explained it clearly enough the different emphasis is in the footwork moving with the changing balance to find a new balance often enough the concept is to maintain balance not change it.

Therefore, yes of course we have similarities because it is all TJQ the principles are the same, the different emphasis are the differences and by having different emphasis a difference in approach evolves and at times even in actual technique.

RAF,
Basics at various degrees = refinement : we are saying the same thing.

Regarding the shield of mysticism and paperwork I agree. It is why I teach no nonsense arts based on the essence, This I cannot talk only my teachers and studenhts can testify. Also, why those that market their special Qi cr@p like a book that my student showed from some guy in the US claiming that his teacher energically passed all his knowledge and power…think ihe was named Karl or something oh please !! the US (and China and many other places have alot of those) . Unfortunately marketing works for some (and the US are well known as the best MArketers in the world :slight_smile: ).

Tapes or Seminars, I think Wang Hai Zhou has made a few VCDs (prob what you’re talking about) and also another set on Xiao Jia by another, also I haven’t seen as yet but there are some conference seminars available on VCD, I’m unsure of the detail though. I guess if one fishes enough they can find, but I don’t collect tapes and things too much, so you’re asking the wrong man. I think that as time progresses more will be released to common markets. It is difficult to put Zhao Bao methods on to a VCD or video because there is quite alot there and not standardised (training or even visiting practitioners at least is better, so what one sees are standardised versions, however as every movement is trained on its own within ists innaugerate amount of variations it can become quite different as a form…but I guess for some flavour it is ok…

There are spear methods taught and the excercises and basics have benefits to training, Da Qiang is used by some but not the norm.

Pole : There is a few excercises with the poles of two kinds : hand poles between two as well as single and also a larger ground pole. This are used at the fundamental level and for addressing the motions of the waist and hips.

Stancework :
Well wuite alot of effort here first which is common to many other TJQ I would presume. Includes rolling the hip in every stance, standing excercises, opening and closing motion of the stance, basic stepping methodologies, patterned stepping especially side panning etc…(didn’t use jargon :))

Anyways, til later

Hi Shaolin Master,

is there a website you would recommend where the information you provide is also presented? If not, could you mail or post a list of the names in your forms --just for reference.

Tia,
Esteban

Zhao Bao TJQ :
http://zlavc.com/bingmao/taiji.htm

Thanks,

Esteban

Video: Zhao Bao Tai Chi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icFudwRDLh4&NR

:slight_smile:

Zhao Bao Taiji

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79lfEBj2Ohs

“The Zhaobao Taijiquan style shares has many similarities with Chen style Taijiquan, and this commonality is considered by the school to be the manifestation of influences introduced by a member of the famed Chen family- Chen Qingping. He created a style known as the “New Frame”, which he taught to many disciples including He Zhaoyuan and Wu Yuxiang. The result of this influence means that the Zhaobao Taijiquan style is often considered by observers to simply be a recent off-shoot of the Chen style. But actually the style has a much longer history and retains many unique qualities based on traditional Taijiquan theory and practice, clearly differentiating it as a complete and separate system of practice.”

[QUOTE=kfson;984143]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79lfEBj2Ohs

“The Zhaobao Taijiquan style shares has many similarities with Chen style Taijiquan, and this commonality is considered by the school to be the manifestation of influences introduced by a member of the famed Chen family- Chen Qingping. He created a style known as the “New Frame”, which he taught to many disciples including He Zhaoyuan and Wu Yuxiang. The result of this influence means that the Zhaobao Taijiquan style is often considered by observers to simply be a recent off-shoot of the Chen style. But actually the style has a much longer history and retains many unique qualities based on traditional Taijiquan theory and practice, clearly differentiating it as a complete and separate system of practice.”[/QUOTE]

I do not believe it has a longer history but a unique one in that it was influenced by He style of the era. Keep in mind that Chen village was close by and as a result a Chen married into that village (zhaobao)and the He influenced introduced said transformation. The Chen individual came from Chenjiagou so Zhaobao cannot be older than Chemnjiagou family art.
Just my objective view!

[QUOTE=mawali;984196]I do not believe it has a longer history but a unique one in that it was influenced by He style of the era. Keep in mind that Chen village was close by and as a result a Chen married into that village (zhaobao)and the He influenced introduced said transformation. The Chen individual came from Chenjiagou so Zhaobao cannot be older than Chemnjiagou family art.
Just my objective view![/QUOTE]
Perhaps I am making a mistake, but what do you mean by He influencing Zhao Bao Tai Chi Chuan? (If that’s what you are saying.) He Zhao Yuan was a student of Chen Qing Ping. He Style Tai Chi Chuan still uses the lineage of Zhao Bao (for example, most He Style practitioners nowadays are of the 12th-14th Generation of Zhao Bao) and is considered a branch of Zhao Bao.

Earlier influence on Zhao Bao TaiChiChuan

Chen Qing Ping, 7th Generation Zhao Bao, is said to have been influenced by Chen Tai Chi Chuan as he also learned Chen from Chen Youben (his Zhao Bao Teacher was 6th Generation Zhang Yian). But looking through my lineage I realized there is possibly an earlier influence. 4th Generation Zhao Bao, Chen Jiang Buo also learned Chen from Chen Zhengru.
Of course it’s all open to debate and of course to what degree there was influence is anyones guess but I was curious if anyone had heard this before?

Wait for our next issue, SteveGTKF

Our next cover story is on Zhaobao Taijiquan. That will be our Jan+Feb 2013, which will be available in early December. We just sent it to print yesterday. Subscribe now and this will be your first issue.

That cover story just hit the newsstands

Zhao’s Stronghold By Gene Ching with Gigi Oh (JAN+FEB 2013)

I hope it answers a few of your questions, or at least, makes clear why there’s such ambiguity with Zhaobao history.

[QUOTE=SteveGTKF;1194795]Chen Qing Ping, 7th Generation Zhao Bao, is said to have been influenced by Chen Tai Chi Chuan as he also learned Chen from Chen Youben (his Zhao Bao Teacher was 6th Generation Zhang Yian). But looking through my lineage I realized there is possibly an earlier influence. 4th Generation Zhao Bao, Chen Jiang Buo also learned Chen from Chen Zhengru.
Of course it’s all open to debate and of course to what degree there was influence is anyones guess but I was curious if anyone had heard this before?[/QUOTE]

I am only saying that Zhaobao is Chen family style with some X factors added. It can still be seen in exposition as Chen. Zhaobao is the next village over from Chenjiagou os they do share a heritage. As to the extent of what is termend He style, I am ignorant but it is alleged to be part and parcel ‘addition’ (extent unknow to me) but it does give Chenjiagou a different ‘look’.

I will look forward to the article in the Jan-Feb 2013 article by Gene Ching!
Thank you sir!

Here’s the cover story - free access!

Zhao’s Stronghold by Gene Ching with Gigi Oh. Omitted from the online version is a lineage chart and Master Wayne Peng’s contact info, which was www.usataichikungfu.com at the time of publication, but for some reason was changed to www.zhaobaotaichi.com without rerouting the original web address.

GM Live 2017: Wayne Peng Wen

//youtu.be/gqGKNtLspQk

JANUARY+FEBRUARY 2015

Zhao Bao Taiji @ KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL