He was invited to my city in Taiwan.
Can anybody educate me about him?
it’s interesting the way romanization makes names different 
Chen Xiao Wang is the 19th generation inheritor of Chen family style Taijiquan, and is very, very good! 
I only know these web pages that have some information: www.qimagazine.co.uk/chen.htm
http://www.michaeltse.u-net.com/centre/chen/index.htm
this is not Chen Xiao Wang, but has some clips of Chen Taijiquan:
http://www.americanchentaichi.com/
hope they can help
david
Just wondering…
“He was of Chen Village (Chenjiagou), Shandong Province.”
If I am not mistaken Chenjiagou is in Henan province (south of Yellow River), which is why Taijiquan is sometime consider one of the southern branch of internal arts. Those internal styles that are created north of the Yellow River (i.e. Hebei province) are northern branch of internal arts. If Taijiquan was created in Shandong province the implications would be immensely profound. Just a thought.
Mantis108
Chen Xiao Wang
Chen Xiao Wang is thought more highly out of China than he is in China. Good but there are better at Chen village
So, who’s better than Chen Xiao Wang? Chen Zheng Lei? Chen Xiao Xing? If anyone else is better than CXW, it has to be his little brother Chen Xiao Xing since he actually trains in the village still instead of traveling around and giving seminars. Chen village is indeed in Henan.
dezhen2001
Thanks for the info.
I’ll post results after I see him.
Chen Xiao Wang
I’ve trained under Master Chen at a spear seminar and can vouch for his power, technique and patient teaching. I have a friend who has trained chin na with him and still marvels at the ease with which he can produce excruciating pain with effortless ease. Go check him out.
Tainain Mantis - no problem Hope you enjoy it
david
If I am not mistaken Chenjiagou is in Henan province (south of Yellow River), which is why Taijiquan is sometime consider one of the southern branch of internal arts. Those internal styles that are created north of the Yellow River (i.e. Hebei province) are northern branch of internal arts. If Taijiquan was created in Shandong province the implications would be immensely profound. Just a thought.
I looked at a little map printed in a “JAMA” article, and it looked like Chenjiagou is North of the Yellow River. I’ll scan it and put it up if you like.
The t’ai chi farm had no relevance to the PRC, at that point I was simply describing Jou and his migrating to the USA. Regardless the post was only confirming wujidude’s post, and is no longer necessary.
Tainan Mantis:
Here are some pieces and sites that may prove helpful in deciding whether to attend or not.
Chen Fake’s pictures:
http://www.taiji.net.cn/tjnews/quanpujc/20010922114513.html
Chen Village shots:
http://geocities.com/panyouli/cxw.htm
Herb Rich’s site:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/herbrich/nresvid.htm
Others:
http://www.hunyuantaiji.com/
http://www.americanchentaichi.com/Pages/VideoClips.html
http://www.taichichen.com/
http://marina.fortunecity.com/victory/273/aspeccqz2.html
http://www.flchentaichi.com/florida_chen_tai_chi.htm
One of the best articles I have read concerning Chen:
Scientific Principles and Methods
of Chenstyle Taijiquan
By Hong Jun-sheng (1906-1996)
All that pertains to real life and that conforms to objective laws of reality will necessarily conform to scientific principles. There are many variations of method, but principles are invariable. Method may change due to people, events, or terrain, but it still conforms to principle, you could also say it conforms to necessity.
Although Chenstyle Taijiquan has been handed down a long time from generation to generation, it was not until Chen Xin (1849-1929) of the 16th generation that the scientific principles and methods of this boxing style were summarized and put forth in writing. Chen Xin wrote that “Taijiquan is the twining method…” and added emphasis to this by saying: “if you don’t understand this, you don’t understand boxing”. The twining method (chan fa) that Chen Xin refers to is a spiraling style of movement; through spiraling, the entire body gradually attains through practice a “silk-twining energy” (chan si jin). This type of energy is a blend of both hard and soft and is the “Yin inseparable from Yang, Yang inseparable from Yin, a blend of Yin and Yang” energy spoken of in Wang Zong-Yue’s Treatise on Taijiquan (Taijiquan Lun). This energy is the product of training by utilizing scientific methods. In terms of physiology, this kind of energy can bring about the movement of the joints, muscles, and each cell of the entire body, so that when there is movement, everything is set into motion, even to the point where there occurs a self-massaging function of the internal organs as the spine rotates left and right. As the years go by, because there is the unimpeded circulation of internal energy (qi) and blood, good health is naturally obtained.
From the point of view of combat, because rotation can be easily changed, no matter which part of my body the attacker’s energy comes close to, I can turn slightly in the same direction of the attacking force - making it easy to neutralize the attack away from me. This is the “leading the attacker off harmlessly” (yin jin luo kong) required by Taijiquan. When you turn, because you are moving in a circle, although this half of the circle is for neutralizing, the other half circle comes around as the rotation continues - naturally forming a circle that is half soft neutralization and half hard issuing power. Suppose the [attacker’s] movement is slow, you could turn a quarter of the circle and easily accomplish the result [of neutralizing the attack]. When your skill is greater and the speed of movement is faster, you can make a very slight rotation and achieve the effect of neutralizing and striking at the same time. Taijiquan therefore requires one to go from big circles to small circles and from small circles to no [apparent] circles at all. Large circles and small circles are the rotation of your vertical axis [spine] coordinated with the rotation [of your limbs] left and right, front and back [so-called “gong zhuan” or common rotation]; no circles at all makes use of the rotation of your vertical axis [so-called “zi zhuan” or self-rotation].
Hong Jun Sheng lived in Jinan for many years and is suppoed to be one of the most knowledgeable.
http://www.artofchina.com/Journal51.html
I believe Joseph Chen teaches his style:
http://www.hunyuantaiji.com/
One last Chineee source:
http://www.taiji.net.cn/
Good luck!
Wujidude:
Can you point me to any sources regarding Chen Boxian?
I have seen lots of Xhaobao and hu lei jia but only one tape of xiaojia (Chine Peishan???).
Thanks!
who is better?
Originally posted by wujidude
[B]Chen Boxian (xiaojia) is better than Chen Xiaowang. Half of the top-level Chen family taiji teachers don’t even live around Chenjiagou. There is a large and masterful contingent in Xian. The Chen style teaching peddled by the Chenjiagou marketing machine doesn’t represent all, or even the best, of the rich and deep Chen taijiquan.
I have a question and a comment. First, the comment (to wujidude in particular): maybe you shouldn’t mark others as ‘peddlers’ (a negative connotation in your context) in one breath and then peddle with the next. Are you a master of Chen Xiawang’s (or Xian folks) level to be able to judge what is ‘better’ or ‘deeper’?
Now the question: how IS it possible to judge which of several greats is better? The art is internal, what you see is not what you get. Also, if two people are much better than you but only slightly different from each other (on the scale of how much better than you in the first place), than what can one really say other than: “they are both much better than me?”
So how to judge?
Re: Ye Gor: Fair Comment and Good Question
Originally posted by wujidude
[B]Mea culpa. … never seen he (Chen Boxian) and Chen Xiaowang go at it together.
…And I feel pretty comfortable comparing the internal skill and strength of two different people after pushing hands with them…
[/B]
What is “mea culpa”?
I’ve never seen any ‘masters’ go at it either. Do they ever? Why don’t they, isn’t that how skill was measured in the good old days (i.e. in public contests)?
You must be pretty good. I’m a nei jia beginner and feel pretty good if I can do a basic and not feel too terribly clumsy at it.
May be I can get some practical use out of this board - I live in Boulder, Colorado… any Chen people in the viscinity? That would like to push (and not wrestle!) once a week? And not before 10 AM? (I know that’s a lot to ask… but I had to ask…)
Thanks to a previous post you can watch Chen Xiao Wang’s 1988
demonstration at the Taste of China:
http://www.kungfu4u.com/chen_xiaowang.htm
-
1988 Demonstration part 1
-
1988 Demonstration part 2
-
1988 Demonstration part 3
Chen Xiaowang was born in 1946 in the Chen Village, in Henan Province, China. He is the son of Chen Xhaoxu, eldest son of the tai chi master Chen Fake.
Chen Xiaowang began studying at the age of 8. His teachers included his grandfather, Chen Fake, his father, Chen Zhaoxu, and his uncles, Chen Zhaokui, and Chen Zhaopi. At a very early age, Chen Xiaowang decided to carry on the tradition of his family’s art.
Because of his dedication, practicing the Chen forms 20 times each day, he soon stood out among his generation of the Chen family. In 1980, he was made a professional coach by the Physical Culture and Sports Committee of the Henan Province. He won gold medals at the national wushu tournaments in 1980 and 1981.
Chen Xiaowang created two forms that are shorter than the long, traditional forms. The 19 form is a beginner form, created after much demand throughout the world. And the 38 form is another that has been hailed as a blessing to all beginners of Chen tai chi.
Chen Xiaowang travels the world, teaching thousands of people in seminars each year. He makes occasional visits to Rockford, Illinois and Madison, Wisconsin. Two of his students, Jim and Angela Criscimagna, regularly travel to meet up with Chen Xiaowang and study with him when he is in the United States.
Check back to this website for future information on Chen Xiaowang and his appearances in the U.S. Click on these links for information about Ren Guang-yi.
Got ticket
I have got the tickets for his ..? Well I don’t know what he is going to do, but it is on March 13.
Report later.
I saw Chen Hsiaowang
Since I first posted this question I have done a little research on him. It seems that he is the pope of Taiji and I mean that in a good way.
The show was in 2 sections.
1.talking
2.forms
The talking was probably interesting, but hard for me to understand. He told a lot of historical stories about his family style that I’ve never heard before.
He talked about Yang Lu Chan learning there etc…
Unfortunetaly I can’t provide many details on these stories. But they were interesting enough for me to want to go and buy a book of them.
But every Taichi book seems to be a form and chi talk, not fascinating stories of fighters.
The forms section wasn’t to good I’m sad to say.
Master Chen was invited by my shr fu’s kung fu brother and so His students, who I’ve seen before, spent a lot of time performing.
Another local teacher had his students do Pao Chuei which was the form Master Chen did. This was a big shocker for me as it seems terribly direspectful. Maybe in Taiji they look at things differently.
That not to polite teacher did a Taiji form with a lot of yells, kinda like southern kung fu.
I have never heard taiji people yell throughout the form have you?
My shr fu went to the promoter and convinced him to let my kung fu brother jump on stage and do a praying mantis form.
Master Chen did his form. It was good. I noticed his jowls shook when he release energy.
At the end he had 10 people get in line and push at the same time. They couldn’t move master Chen. This was very disapointing to see.
Nowadays I think we know that the combined pushing energy of 10 people can’t exceed the pushing power of the person at the front of the line.
For comparative notes:
When Chen Man Ching’s #1 student did his demos he would push people across the stage while holding a 1 meter flourescent light bulb in his hands(I saw this) among other things. So I think that in the end the taiji masters weren’t too impressed as most taichi in Taiwan comes from Chen Manching.
“So I think that in the end the taiji masters weren’t too impressed as most taichi in Taiwan comes from Chen Manching.”
Be interested in hearing what or how people view good TC with this back ground.
As you may have read here on this BBS some seem to discount the Cheng style all together. Some even say that he diluted it even more (what ever that means)
Here in SF of the TC teachers and people I have spoke with/pushed with all have a high regard for his abilities when he was alive and his interpetation of TC.
I keep hearing this style associated with “new age” have yet to meet up with it.
Just be interested in hearing what their views are on this.
The story I heard is the CMC diluted the YCF form a lot more so it is a lot more health oriented. The reason was that people were concentrating the fighting aspects of it too much, that they didn’t focus on developing internal jin. So he said to screw with fighting applications now, lets focus on getting our jin developed with his form. That’s the story I heard. And I don’t think that was a bad idea. I practice my Chen form for jin development now, and hopefully for fighting later. And besides, it’s not like I’m gonna fight at my neighborhood Blockbusters or something any time soon. If that was true, I would’ve just continued practicing my knife fighting instead of taiji.
Maybe New Age isn’t the proper terminology but there is a sort of cult-like, arrogance among some of the groups that followed Zheng Man Qing. Although I liked the Terry Dunn tape, years ago he appeared in the Yoga Journal explaining taiji and I always associated the journal with the New Age movement. However, reading most of Zheng Man Qing’s books along with other authors, he is more a traditional Chinese exponent than New Age.
I have been at tournaments where his followers have negatively commented on other performers being too low, not soft enough, wrong postures, kicks being too high etc.. Some of Robert Smith’s writings are pretty judgemental regarding the practice of taiji done by others. His view of Chen style taiji in a footnote of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts pretty much inferred that it wasn’t taiji and that is a pretty big shot to take.
On the other hand, groups of traditional Yang Cheng Fu lineage holders have done the same to him. Some claim he never spent as much time with Yang Cheng Fu as he claimed etc.. In Fu Zhong Wen’s last interview in the Tai chi Magazine he made it quite clear that the Yang style origins are rooted in the Chen Village and he made no claim of modification or Yang Lu Chan receiving a secret transmission from the outside.
So what else is new?
Politics in every group. However I do find it odd that Zheng Man Qing traces the origins to the Chang San Feng history, by-passing Chen’s history, while other Yang Cheng Fu lineage holders clearly trace their origin to the Chen Village.
Also would like to know where Zheng Man Qing traces the origin of the taiji sword.
Historically it is my understanding that the jian practice in the Chen family came very, very late and that there is no record of Yang Lu Chan practicing the tajiji jian (spear and dao yes).
According to an article written by Doc Fai Wong, the Taiji sword has its origin in the Wudang sword of Song Wei Yi who taught it to Yang Ban Hou and then it entered the Yang family style.
I know this is a bit off the Chen Xiao Wang topic but I really don’t want to start a new thread on this since we would lose continuity.
Any take on Zheng Man Qing’s take on the origins of the Yang taiji sword?