hi my friends
my friends im like to say maubye yip man dnt give to wili.ch. real and original forms and positions and strategy of wing chun , but important here is : that man wili.cheu. give all live for wing chun and for progres in wing chun im mean that is for respect and for best words that is my oppinion . ( tho from us know all sistem of chi sao and wing chun ? )- just friendly tiger_1 
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wing chun practitioners can deflect and attack at the same time
Maybe Augusting Fong did say that you can’t block and attack at the same time but I doubt that he would say that you can’t deflect and attack at the same time. There is a difference. I have seen fong use a tan da at the same time while shifting. That’s just one technique of many that I have seen him do. I personally have been able to deflect and attack at the same time numerous of times against various opponents. I’m sure that many others have been able to do it too. Being able to simultaneously deflect and attack was what lured me into this system. I don’t block because I don’t like to use force against force. If I block and then punch I will give my opponent an oppurtunity to hit me after my block. Now if I deflect and punch at the same time I would minimize the possibility of getting hit. My deflection and strike goes together with my footwork, angle struture and timing. With out those necessities I won’t be able to deflect and attack at the same time. I’m not saying that I deflect and punch all the time but that I’m able to do it when the opppurtunity is given. Yes despite what one or two might say it is possible. Besides wing chun is not the only system that deflects and strikes simultaneously.
A buddhist monk once told me don’t believe what people say or tell you! Go and see it for yourself, try it and explore it. Only then would you know the truth!
Miles Teg
I heard that they dont do much chi sao at all.
And from whom did you hear this? Someone who had actually trained at a TWC school, or just another uninformed poster on the “Net of a million lies”?
Can some Cheung students tell us how much chi sao they practice? (genuinely curious)
Students are taught various chi sao positions and drills at various stages of their training, and in accordance with where they are in the grading system. While chi sao is practiced and revised in class regularly, students are expected to practice the drills in their own time outside of class, so that tuition can deal with more complex aspects of the art rather than being spent on forcing lazy students to do what they should already be doing anyway.
I’m pretty confident that I could hold my own in chi sao with most students of other WC styles who had been training for a similar length of time. I’m also confident my instructor could do the same with people who had been training as long as he.
Simultaneous block and attack - wing chun vs taiji
I just thought I might dip in and make a comment about blocking and attacking simultaneously. When I studied wing chun I thought of this as the ultimate economy of motion… I still do, only I now think the second hand is unnecessary.
In bagua and taiji, we execute a simultaneous block and attack with one limb instead of two. Wing chun is familiar with the kicking version - you can block a kick to your knee and break the attackers leg with the same motion. In a way, the block is a by-product of the intent to break the leg. In taiji and bagua, we can do the same thing to a punch - as an opponent punches, you go stright for the neck on the outside and it bounces off their forearm on the way. If you hit the neck before they hit you, all their power is lost… and if you don’t get there first, the bump on the way through has shifted the punch jut far enought off target to have neutralised it. Another example from taiji is the penetration punch. When I first saw this punch I thought of it as a bong sau that drives forwards and wields an up-side-down fist on the end. The forearm/elbow pops the attackers punch (this time you’re on the inside) and again the impact adds energy to the strike vectoring in on the temple.
As I said, it helps to think of the block as being a by-product of your super-yang counter-offensive. I hope this also gives the (correct) impression that the strategy is extremely street-smart.
Just some chatter for those of you who are interested in both arts 
Ok **** face
A guy who trains in the same school as me who has done William Cheung for 5 years before he changed to a better style.
He also has a video of William Cheung doing Chum Kiu at a seminar and stopping for a while rubbing his head because he forgot how the rest of it went.
I tried to be politically correct thats why I wanted verification from other students, and thats also why I wrote in brackets “genuinely curious”.
Note: Attack and defense drills do not equal chi sao.
dedalus
Taiji is some cool ****. 
Check into Oi moon choi and Noi moon choi, they works much as you described. if the fist come over/under (inside or outside “Oi” or “Noi”)my fist and has no force you an just “power” in and hit them, if you are in the center and your stace is right, thier hit will just miss but yours will hit.
heh super yang offensse, i like it 
Aha!
but ONLY if your stance is right. If it is left, their hit will hit and yours will miss… or is it your miss will hit left if you are right, right?
–
chi kwai
OdderMensch, I dig the name… wonder who else gets it?
Something you wrote in your profile triggered off a memory. One of Yang Shao-Hou’s disciples once stated in an interview that there were certain individuals who required no kung fu, because they were already masters. When asked who, he responded “Lao Tse, Budda, Jesus, and that man I saw yesterday with the hammer”
Empty Cup
Sorry about laying into you the other day; I was already ticked due to another unrelated matter.
I wasn’t questioning how long you were studying your particular wing chun style, but whether you had even tried using some of William Cheung’s approaches. Sometimes people make comments about whether some strategy works or not WITHOUT even trying it. Sometimes people don’t try things because it is foreign to them. Little do they know that they might like it when they do try it.
The other day, I believed you were attacking sigong cheung’s strategy by saying “… I don’t agree with his approach.” That is why I got a little upset.
It’s OK for you to have your opinion about it, but as Bill Gates has said in the past,
“Just because YOU don’t think it is a good idea, that doesn’t mean it isn’t!”
I believe all the great Wing Chun practicioners have something to teach all of us!
“Kick his ass, Sea-Bass!” - Dumb and Dumber
It’s cool.
And yes, an opinion is just that - an opinion. Heck most people even disagree with their own opinions at later dates! I know right now I disagree with many of my own principles and beliefs that I previously held when I was younger and less experienced. Who knows? I might end up seeing things the other way in ten years…
However, William does criticize my “modified” wing chun every chance he gets. Every time he opens his mouth, every time he writes or endorses an article. All he’s been saying the last decade is how much superior his form of “traditional” wing chun is to the wing chun everybody else learned from Yip Man. It’s hard not to criticize him if you see faults since he acts as if he’s the inventor of wing chun or something!
P Redmond
And I thought I was old.
so many directions in this thread
So many things brought up in this thread but I will keep my comments short.The methods of Bill Cheung can be found in the sword form and to lesser degree in the pole and dummy form in Yip Man derived WC.
There may be a basis in fact for his story and I think Bill’s latest story may be closest to the truth.
Fung familiy side body WC is so named because they attack the side of the opponent i.e. the outer gate.Same as TWC.To counter traditional chan wah WC if you are smaller you must use outer gate longer range WC.
Since TWC and the WC taught by Garrett Gee share choreography there must be a connection.One should shed light on the other.
ABMAN…william cheung students practice chi sao almost all the time!
WCFIGHTER…I have to agree with EMPTYCUP…my experience with WILLIAM CHEUNG organization is we are the ONLY TRUE WING CHUN…laughing at all other organizations…I’m surprised you didn’t get the propaganda while training with them.
A
Miles Teg and LEGEND
Miles, first up:
Ok **** face
Glad to see your attempts at political correctness are continuing, also that you are mature and do not have a private agenda.
A guy who trains in the same school as me who has done William Cheung for 5 years before he changed to a better style.
Well, his experience is different from mine. I have 12 years. My instructor is no longer aligned with William Cheung because he too was seeking a “better system”.
He also has a video of William Cheung doing Chum Kiu at a seminar and stopping for a while rubbing his head because he forgot how the rest of it went.
And your point is? We left William’s organisation because we felt he took his eye off the ball too.
I tried to be politically correct
didn’t last long, did it?
thats why I wanted verification from other students, and thats also why I wrote in brackets “genuinely curious”.
And I answered your question with due respect to that, though your follow up tantrum indicates it isn’t quite true. I have a right to question the source of your opinion, especially when it doesn’t agree with my actual experience within the WWCKFA.
Note: Attack and defense drills do not equal chi sao.
:rolleyes: Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious, Sherlock. I’m not sure I ever said they did, but it’s a matter of definition.
But - be it chi sao, drills, sparring, or fighting I feel my coach’s training and my skills are at least commensurate with those available elsewhere.
LEGEND:
Well, my school doesn’t and never did do chi sao “all the time”. YMMV.
AbMan
“Ok **** face” - Miles Teg
tnwingtsun
Old??
I’m just a baby. Got a long way to go.
Hunt 1
Have you checked out Garrett Gee and the HFY reviews on the VTmuseum website? I would like to know your personal comments if any?
rolling_hand
You ask about something I am not qualified to talk about.I have been told my several in a position to know that the forms etc are 95% the same.I know Rick Spains group has taken to saying its the same WC.I personally dont know.What i do know is that if the choreography is that similiar they share the same source.The fact that Garrett Gee may teach differently or with a deeper understanding doesnt make it different.You can find many Yip Man students who teach differently yet the source is the same and the choreography of the forms tells you that.
I find it interesting that TWC’s wooden dummy is so similiar to the Yip Man Dummy form.If it is similiar to HFY dummy form I think something very curious happened.
TWC dummy
>I find it interesting that TWC’s wooden dummy is
>so similiar to the Yip Man Dummy form.If it is
>similiar to HFY dummy form I think something very
>curious happened.
afaik, the twc dummy form is pretty much the same as tsui shun tings (sp) dummy, since that was williams teacher at that time.
have not seen HFY dummy to know how much they correspond.
i still think william learnt the other stuff from an unknown/undisclosed sifu when he was on the run in china…
-Stu, Lifestyle Wing Chun, Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.lifestylewingchun.com
afaik, the twc dummy form is pretty much the same as tsui shun tings (sp) dummy, since that was williams teacher at that time.
have not seen HFY dummy to know how much they correspond.
i still think william learnt the other stuff from an unknown/undisclosed sifu when he was on the run in china…
tsui shun ting’s wc looks totally different than Grandmaster Cheungs..The same applies to the dummy form. They are not the same!
learnt the other stuff…hmm, so you think so ,eh?
LOL…
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> tsui shun ting’s wc looks totally different than Grandmaster Cheungs..The same applies to the dummy form. They are not the same! [/quote]
Agreed! On top of this the power generation methods are VERY different.
S.Teebas