It is my understanding that the Tai Chi as it was pass to Kuo was originally 2nd generation Yang Style and Sun made some minor adjustments as to breathing and stepping. But the overall set is still old Yang.
Now Li Ching Lin and his think tank mambers made a decision that influence the rest of the CMA world. They decided that there are only two style that are really important, Wu Tang and Shaolin and thus work on these two styles to improve and spread the arts. (It was here that the group decided to group all internal styles, Pa Kau , Tai Chi and Hsing-i under one, Wu Tang)
Now KYC was a general under the command of Li Ching Lin and he requested Sun to teach his officers Pa Kua and Hsing-i. Sun and Li are at a higher level than Kuo so there was no exchange of knowledge. Kuo was the student and acted accordingly. As a result of these priviate lesssons, many of these students went to the 1928 1st China National Tournament in Nanking. The top 13 champions used not their original style but Hsing-i techniques to defeat their opponents.
The priniciple and concepts of of internal styles are very close to NSL unlike many other shaolin styles and so techniques from Hsing-i were easily tranported into #9 and #10 but as wise sifus being that they are, made sure that the NSL’s flavor was kept within the set. The hsing-i techniques are there but they do not change the set’s flavor nor overpower the other NSL techniques.
thanks for your detailed answer concerning Chan Kwok Wai being a junior to your sifu.
Years ago a friend of mine told me that your teacher, Sifu Wong Jack Man not only completed his training in the Northern Shaolin system at a young age, but he was one of the few students that Yim Sheung Mo allowed to study Northern Shaolin Lo Han from under Ma Kin Fung.
Is this true? And if so how long did he study under Ma Kin Fung?
Yes it is true but I do not know the exact number of years he studied with GGM Ma. MY sifu started his studies with YSW in China and together ended up in HK. He completed his studies after 11 years with YSW. During the time in HK and after LTH’s sudden death, YSW and MKF shared the same practice facility so my sifu was one of the few selected individuals that could learn from two different masters at the same time. He would spend the mornings with one and the afternoon with other sifu; all of which were private lessons. He was learning and practicing kung fu day and night except on Sundays for at least 11 continious years.
After completion of his studies in both Northen Shaolin and Northern Shaolin Lo Han, both sifus wrote another letter of introduction to GGM Yip Yee Ting so that he can study Mi Tsung Lo Han. I do not know how long he stayed with YYT because he had made arrangements to leave for USA by then.
Pak Sing Choy Li Fut is not named in this way because of Pak Sil Lum influences. I use to believe the same because of KYC influences.
But the reasons is that Tam Sam have his gwoon and all of his students belong to Sil Pak in Canton, and that’s why his branch have the Pak name.
I’ve read that Pak Sing name intention more than north wind is north victory, as in all Sing of CLF branches.
Your teacher was very lucky to have been giving the opportunity to learn as much traditional northern kung-fu as he did while living in Hong Kong from famous masters such as GM Yim Sheung Mo, GM Ma Kin Fung and GM Yip Yee Ting.
With GM Yim Sheung Mo and GM Ma Kin Fung sharing the same training facility in Hong Kong did they ever exchange forms, principles, techniques…etc? Also I read somewhere that Ma Kin Fung was also a student of Ku Yu Chang, do you know how long he studied with Ku Yu Chang? And if so, did he also teach Northern Shaolin at his school as well.
We hear alot about the Northern Shaolin Lo Han system that was taught by GM Ma Kin Fung in Canada, but rarely get a chance to see the system performed in public. How close or similar are the Northern Shaolin and Northern Shaolin Lo Han forms?
I do not know if MKF exchanged info with YSW. However, they did respected each other skills but there was a generation gap because YSW was 20 years older than MKF and this may have created a communication problem. Also they had different personalities, where one was outgoing, aggressive and known to be a no hold bar fighter while the other was quiet, kept to himself and very passive person.
MKF stated that he had three teachers, Wong Duk Hing, Sun Yu Fung and Kuo Yu Chang. However, YSW never acknowledge that KYC taught MKF directly nor did he ever state that he personally witness KYC teaching MKF.
But MKF did teach all 10 NSL sets in his curriculum in addition to his normal NSL- Lo Han curriculum in HK but when he left for Canada, he changed his curriculum and stop teaching NSL. (The old timers use NSL#6 as a method of where one learn NSL because YSW’s and MKF’s ending was different.) Sadly, MKF passed away in the year 2000 but his son continues to teach in Canada. His curriculum has NSL, NSL-LH and some Wu Shu.
NSL Lo Han’s concepts and theories are very similar to NSL and thus compliment each other well. Comparing the two styles, the flavor is different with NSL-LH being more aggressive in attacking techniques while NSL is a more balance style with deeper techniques in both attacking and defensive. In general, NSL-LH attracts the younger group because of the appearance of being a very aggressive attacking style and its quicker pace and high-energy style (lots of jumping and low stances) while NSL attracts the older group for whatever reason. (slower pace, less jumping). Most curriculums will teach NSL first before slowly starting the NSL-LH.
Dear NorthernShaolin:
I am in the Northern Shaolin since 1975. But I am following GM Chan Kowk Wai since 1990. I haver leartn the ten core forms, many weapon sets and 9 of the Siu Can Tson exercises. I also have learnt Tai chi Chuan, Hsing Yi (first two forms) and Mantis with my Teacher.
I am 42 and always glad to hear from Beishaolin Older and Younger colleagues!!!
Dear Gene ching:
I already know they have never met. My teacher has told me exactly the same. Master Kwong wing Lam begun his training when GM Chan had already gone to Brazl as you well say.
Kindest regards to both, and my deepest respect to your admirable Teachers.
horacio
Dear NS:
I have been writing you both in private and in some forums asking for some clarification about my lack of protocol.
Now, I have understood, I have just read your post in this thread where you explain it very clearly.
I have to point out that even being a 28 years practicioner, I had no information about your Teacher’s background.
As I DIDN T KNOW that GM Wong had studies Bak siu Lam in China, I stated that my sifu was the oldest YSM student.
I understand your reaction but please try not to get confused, my intention never was to put my sifu over your sifu’s head. I think that every good student respects his sifu whether he is older o lower classmate. That’s my case. I have never been told about your sifu as being the oldest. I am VERY SORRY for my mistake, and want to present my apologies publicly here.
I really expect you to understand and accept my sincere apologies, including my deepest respect for your GrandMaster. I really believed what I have writen. My mistake could have dishonoured my sifu too, nothing more far away from my intentions.
I believe Wong Jack Man, Kwong Wing Lam, Johny So, etc, are all very respectable teachers no matter who begun earlier with this BSL training.
Sincerely and respectfully:
Horacio
Being humble, forgiving and respectful is always the martial way.
I have deep respect for you and your sifu.
It is understood that we are all here to learn and share knowledge with each other. We are all cousins under one umbrella of NSL and with one thought of spreading CMA as much as we can.
