I’m new to this forum, and this is my first post (so be gentle with me ). I’m really impressed with the quality of information to be found here.
I’m trying to find out some information about Yim Sheung Mo (I’ve also seen his name written as Yang Shang Wu). I’ve read the posts here in this Shaolin Kung Fu forum about him (and his teacher Ku Yu Cheung) and have learned lots of valuable information, particularly from the poster called NorthernShaolin, so if he or anybody else could provide a little more information I’d be very grateful.
The old Yang style of Tai Chi Chuan I practice (and some Northern Shaolin weapons and Pak Sing Choy Lee Fut) was taught to my teacher by Master Lam Kam Cheun, who was taught by Yim Sheung Mo and Lung Tse Chung in Hong Kong.
You often read about Yim Sheung Mo in relation to Northern Shaolin, but it’s his Tai Chi Chuan lineage that I’m particularly interested in - does anyone know where he got it from - was it Ku Yu Cheung or another source?
(Our form is also known as the Quanping Yang form, which indicates it’s from the Quanping area of China).
Incidentally, if anyone would like to see some cool pictures of Yim Sheung Mo doing Tai Chi Chuan and Northern Shaolin then have a look here:
Greetings! Check out Shaolinboxingmethods.com. There is a lineage family tree that shows him also learning Tai Chi from Ku Yu Cheung. Ku Yu Cheung apparently learned it from Li Jing Lin and Sun Lu Tang. Hope this helps!
I once wrote an article about Wu Tang Sword and Li Ching Lin in a French mag called Bushido back in 1984. I’ve misplaced my the original English version so this is from my memory.
Li Ching Lin was one of China Seven Swordsmen who was trained by Tsung Wei I in the early 1900’s. The other swordsmen were Lau Chan K’uei, Chang Te Chun, Hsiao Fung Hsing, Chen Yu Kuan, Lau Hai Yen and Kuo Chih Fung. Li Ching Lin had an open inventation at his house to any swordman who who match or beat him. He want to match his skill against any MA sword skills. He was defeating everyone and became known as China’s Greatest Swordsman. He was a General in the KMT and many masters came to learn from him. Kuo Yu Chang and Wan Li Sheng were some of his students.
Of all the matches that Li had, he was defeated once when he faced the famous Tai Chi master, Yang Chien Hou. Right after they squared off, Yang knocked Li’s sword out of his hand. From that moment, Li became Yang student and learned Tai Chi and Tai Chi Sword.
The Tai Chi that he learned was before Yang Chien Hou’s son, Yang Chang Fu, wrote his Tai Chi book which became the standard Tai Chi set so it is a set that is not widely practiced. KYC taught the set to Yim Shan Wu.
Li Ching Lin taught KYC the Tai Chi, Tai Chi Sword, Wu Tang swords and Tai Yu Sword. The other sword sets that KYC knew,.i.e. Dragon Shape, Seven Star, Tamo and Eight Faries are Shaolin swords, not Wu Tang
Yes it is true that Yim Shan Wu died in 1971. But the web site is wrong about YSW and Hung Gar. He was a pure Northerner with Northern Shaolin, Lui Ho and Ch’a Chuan. KYC kept two of his disciples from being traded to Tam Sam and other Southern Masters because he wanted at least two of his disciples to be pure Northerners in Southern China.
I do not have a copy of this book but if it was written in 1931 it probablysays a lot of good things about Li Ching Lin because he was a powerful person in the government and in CMA. He did not died until 1932 from a poison pill so since he was alive he might have had some input.
What you’ve said about our Tai Chi Chuan coming from Yang Chien Hou makes perfect sense to me,
It’s not well known - I’ve only once seen our form done by one other Tai Chi school outside Master Lam’s lineage, and that was in South America from the lineage of another student of Yim Sheung Mo.
It is differnet to the standardised Yang Cheng Fu verison - not as large frame, no slight leaning (vertical alignment of spine), more martial flavour to the movements and “softer”.
Re: Ku Yu Cheung
Do you know why KYC traded his students with Tam Sam (Choy Lee Fut practioner?) what was the logic behind that? Was it to spread Northern Shaolin to other areas of China, or was it to exchange skills from the students he received? or was it to keep the peace? or perhaps a mixture of all three?
Re: Sword forms
There’s a form we practice called “Northern Shaolin Dragon Sword” - I wonder if this is the “Dragon Shape” sword form you mention?
Finally - where do you get all this information from? I’m really impressed with your in-depth knowledge - is it from research or from your teachers? I guess, what I’m trying to say is, ‘who are you?’
One of the main objective of KMT was to unify the China during the 1920’s. They developed a motto: “A Strong Mind and a Strong Body builds a Strong Country”. Part of their plan was to use CMA to build strong bodies. When KYC was appointed one of the Five Tigers of the North who went South, he, with the other four masters, were to open National Martial Art Schools and teach CMA to the masses. VP General Li Ching Lin, along with President General Chang Chih Chiang, decided that the two most important styles of CMA were Shaolin and Wu Tang and thus these were the styles to be taught in the government schools.
The Five Tigers were ordered to convince the southern population that all CMA were one big family and as part of the ‘buy-in plan’ was to trade students with the Southern Masters.
Yes, the Dragon Shape sword is the same one.
As to where I get my information…Much of my research has been collected 20 years ago when disciples of Yim Shan Wu and Lung Tzu Hsing were alive and willing to share their knowledge of NSL. Large parts came from reading numerous old Chinese documents, translating and interviewing the older disciples of NLS. Some of the information has come from my own sifu. Pieces and fragments of information over a long period of time that finally fitted together to get the bigger picture.
Who am I? By reading my profile you’ll notice that I’m from the older generation. I’m the second most senior of Sifu Wong Jack Man and I’m the most active in NSL of all his senior disciples. I have witness the spread of CMA seeds across America and witness the CMA as its roots grew deep while its flowers blossom across the Non Asian Western World.
I have been enighted by some important information here, thanks a lot.
I practice Northern shaolin with GM Chan Kowk Wai, in Sao Paulo, Brazil.
Chan Kowk Wai was the first student of Yim Sheung Mo, and introduced the style (and chinese martial arts) in South America in 1960.
He is nowadays 68 years old and has a very good shape!.
By the way , Yim Sheung Mo was INDEED a Hung Gar Teacher Before he met KYC. It was after a fight with the Master that he decided to leave Hung Gar and begin training BeiShaolin.
Kindest regards
horacio di renzo http://www.kaimen.com.ar
Remember me? I e-mailed you three times in the past four years and you stated you were too busy to converse but would get back to me. You never did.
Several years ago I read in your web site that YSW learnt Hung Gar and I wanted to discuss this particular issue with you. First, I respect your sifu because we are one large family. Secondly, your sifu is my sifus lower classmate so that makes us cousins.
Now with regards to your information that YSW was a Hung gar teacher. Where did you pick up this infomation? Who did he fight? According to my sources which is not only my sifu but also from YSW’s older senior disciples and also numerous documentations on NSL translated from New Martial Hero mag., Hong Kong Chinese Martial Arts Mag, and Martial Hero mag.
It is documented the only style that YSW learnt before NSL was Liu Ho chuan from Wan Li Sheng. He had to ask permission from WLS and get a letter of introduction from WLS to give to KYC before learning NSL.
Please enlighten me and direct me to your source of information on this topic.
Dear Northern Shaolin:
How could I remember you as you use a nickname? I am very sorry for this, I didn´t notice you were the same person.
for my lack of a proper answer, I sincerely apologyze. For sure, I didn’t tell you I was busy in the way you make it look here. Anyway, again , my apologies.
I didn´t discuss about the subject but I don’t remember having received “four” mails from you ¿may be one or two? well, it has been so long time ago, let’s doit now.
First of all, I don’t know for sure this situation about Yim Sheung Mo. All I know is by my Teacher Chan Kowk Wai, so I can’t assure this. You are looking for some documents, I don’t have these. All I have is my teacher’s words. He could be wrong…so I give up.
May be I am wrong but I think I read this from Kwong Wing Lam Too, may be our cousin Gene Ching could let us know.
As I told you, as far as I know my teacher has been YSM first formal student, so I can assume he knew YSM very well. My teacher has a lot of respect for your teacher, so for sure Master Wong knew YSM very well too…we are even here.
I am very sorry not to be able to help you. For me this is not an important matter, but as my teacher told me this, I tell it to others.
Kindest regards
horacio
PD if you write me in private this time I promise you will have a proper answer. I hope you are not angry (may be I misunderstand you but it seems you are a bit so
BTW how many years have you been practicing Bak siu Lam?
KM- By the time my sifu Wing Lam was under YSM, your sifu had already left for Brazil. My sifu and your sifu never trained together, at least according to Wing Lam. He said that the only way he knew of CKW was because just before he left to come to the U.S.A. YSM told him he had a student in Brazil. I don’t beleive they ever met.
Northern Shaolin - First on all I am very impressed with your knowledge of Buk Sil Lum, martial arts history…etc. I noticed that Kai Men stated that Chan Kwok Wai was Yim Sheung Mo’s first student, but you said that he is a lower classmate to your teacher.
Could you please explain in more details what you mean by Chan Kwok Wai being a lower classmate of your teacher?
One year ago I had the pleasure to visit with Lung Kai Ming son of Lung Tse Chung in Kowloon and I was told by him and shown Ku’s Tai Chi which he said came directly to his father from Yim Shang Mo and Ku Yu Cheong. It looked similar to Yang’s short set with subtle variation. I have it on tape along with the interview and Q&A. if I can ever figure out the Ftp problem I am having I might post a fragment on my website.
Lokhopkuen
>Yim Sheung Mo question…
Hi,
I’m new to this forum, and this is my first post (so be gentle with me ). I’m really impressed with the quality of information to be found here.
I’m trying to find out some information about Yim Sheung Mo (I’ve also seen his name written as Yang Shang Wu). I’ve read the posts here in this Shaolin Kung Fu forum about him (and his teacher Ku Yu Cheung) and have learned lots of valuable information, particularly from the poster called NorthernShaolin, so if he or anybody else could provide a little more information I’d be very grateful.
The old Yang style of Tai Chi Chuan I practice (and some Northern Shaolin weapons and Pak Sing Choy Lee Fut) was taught to my teacher by Master Lam Kam Cheun, who was taught by Yim Sheung Mo and Lung Tse Chung in Hong Kong.
You often read about Yim Sheung Mo in relation to Northern Shaolin, but it’s his Tai Chi Chuan lineage that I’m particularly interested in - does anyone know where he got it from - was it Ku Yu Cheung or another source?
(Our form is also known as the Quanping Yang form, which indicates it’s from the Quanping area of China).
Incidentally, if anyone would like to see some cool pictures of Yim Sheung Mo doing Tai Chi Chuan and Northern Shaolin then have a look here:
Yes “Pak Sing” does means “north wind” So in total content, Pak Sing Choy Lay Fut means Northern influence on Choy Lay Fut.
Yes YSM passed away in 1971. In his later life he tend to practice more Tai Chi than NSL. He learnt his TC from Kuo Yu Chang who learnt it from Li Ching Lin who learnt it from Yang Chien Hou who is the second generation of Yang Tai Chi. It was the third yang, Yang Cheng Fu that established the standard Yang set as we see today.
During the time of Li Chang Lin, he had a MARTIAL ARTS THINK TANK who consist of many internal masters such as Sun Lu Tang, Fu Chen Sheng, Yang Chien Hou, etc, and it was here that they exchanged knowledge freely between themselves. Much info was exchange and aided in the development of their styles. Hence Sun’s Tai Chi, Fu’s Tai Chi which were developed after the Think Tank session. It is also noted that Yang Chien Hou’s Tai Chi, as you learnt it, is often refered as the old style Tai Chi. It also contains many Sun Lu Tang’s Tai Chi principles.
Northern Shaolin;
I am by no means a historian so I only know what I hear from my teacher and associates. I have heard that Sun Lu Tang exchanged and taught to Ku Yu Cheong tai chi, bagua and hsing yi. there is a noted influence of hsing yi in the last forms of 9 and 10. Can you shed some light on any influences the exchange might have had on the whole of Northern shaolin style ? Did Sun Lu Tang’s Tai Chi become a part of Ku’s Tai Chi?
Regards
According to traditional CMA sifu means father, and his students are his children. When people join the school, regardless of their age, they become his children and are ranked according to when they join.
In other words, if I join a school at age 26 yrs old, and there is 20 yr old who joined one month before me, according to tradition, he is my older classmate and I would have to listen to him. I would have to call him Sihing and give him all the respect that is attached to that title. Anything less is disrespect to him, to my Sifu and to the school.
So in the case of my sifu, he joined long before sifu Chan and therefore is the older classmate. In fact my sifu completed his studies long before sifu Chan. I remember showing a Chinese article to my sifu about Sifu Chan going to South America and my teacher said he is a lower classmate.
Now what really places bugs in my bed is when Kai Men states that Sifu Chan is YSW’s first student with complete disregard and disrespect to all of Sifu Chan older classmates, including my sifu. All of us would like to feel special, but would a sifu really say such a thing to any of his students? I do not believe any reasonable sifu would make such a statement to any of his students.
As much experience that Kai Men has, he should think before making statements like that. To state that my sifu told me …is a poor excuse.
Kai Men should really know better and should follow the proper protocal and as you can see, he blew me away again by not answering me nor giving me the proper respect.
). I’m really impressed with the quality of information to be found here.