OK, no more sales pitch : ) I do appreciate any feedback from other martial artists. The side entry techniques will not be affected by the stand. I know it is hard to tell from the picture but in reality there is plenty of room. As far as the “there are reasons for the dummies shape, diametre, hieght, even down to the width of the frame if you want to be fastidious” comment, the dummy height should be constructed for the person using the dummy. I don’t know what you mean by “shape”, as far as the width of the frame, yes I’m sure there is a traditional frame width but a lot of people don’t have room for such a large structure. As I have told other people who have questioned the traditionalism of our dummy, if you want a traditional, full rack system go buy one. Our dummy is for people that don’t have that option (or that much money). There will always be people who are full of negativity who will say, “it’s not traditional enough” or “a traditional dummy is built this way or that way”. My response is, if that’s what you want then by all means go buy a traditional dummy. I know there are a lot of martial artists out there who would rather have a not-so-traditional dummy they can afford and use rather than looking at pictures of dummy’s they will never be able to own.
Wooden Dummy…
Originally posted by yuanfen
I am glad that you recognize the need for a round dummy body. There is more…
Sifu YuanFen-
In your opinion, what are the most important aspects / features of a wooden dummy? Thanks for your time.
Mokujin
Dummy qualities
In no particular order.
Realistic weight
Durability
Attention to detail
Action
Quality of materials
Relation to practitioner’s size
As for action,depends on your needs.Beginners in W.C. might want less resistance,advanced,more resistance.JKDers might want more springiness,options like higher legs,neck contours,horizontal side legs,etc.
“Gung Fu is Gung Fu,it’s not childsplay”-Bruce Lee
Sifu YuanFen-
In your opinion, what are the most important aspects / features of a wooden dummy? Thanks for your time.
Mokujin
You might want to visit my site at <www.azwingchun.com>. My part of the site is on the left. On the right side is my students site
and I have written a short piece on the dummy for him. Red Lion in Georgia also makes a decent dummy and Wing Lam imports some from China.But some imported dummies have the top arms misaligned horizontally. I dont like to see Yip Man wing chun watered
down though I am prepared for reasonable adaptations which do not violate some basic wing chun principles. Yip man himself shifted from the buried dummy to the apartment dummy with slats but the principle remained i.e. a little springy- a little give but not too much so that the practitioner adjusts and becomes flexible and mobile, develops his/her wing chun footwork but does not sacrifice structure. Bruce Lee never learned the wing chun dummy form and went off on a tangent with his own ideas. Since then some JKD folks and even some wc folks just beat up on dummies without understanding the concepts behind each motion and put all sorts of springs and contraptions which slows down good wing chun development. I have no problem with an
apartment stand alone dummy if it is stable and fairly solid. I like the feel
of hardwood- one senses the transfer of energy. Metal or even PVC does not do that to the same extent and softwood becomes loose and breaks up fast. Hope that helps. In any case I tried to respond to your question. Good wishes.
JKD and Wing Chun dummies both work well for their different approaches.JKD being more agressive and less detailed requires a heavier dummy with more spring,whereas Wing Chun is more precise and sticky.Trapping cousins.
It’s most important to maintain and control while adapting to a fixed structure.Oddly enough it was Hawkins Cheung who said that learning the first third of the dummy form would probably be enough for most people,some of the time.Once you have the principles,body unity etc. the ability to improvise and flow become just as valid when viewed as a training aid.Different perspectives arise(Filipino destructions and zoning principles),and imagination stretches.That can’t be so bad if practiced in a balanced way.
To me,dummy quality consists of 3 things
1.value vs. co$t
2.users needs
3.the builder
If the basic design strays too far,we’re getting into something ‘not’ Wing Chun.Trapping cousins,perhaps.Afterall,no styles is omnipotent enough to patent a fighting range.Muay Thai have an effective clinch etc.Learn from each other,hopefully take risks and make wise choices along the way.Only the brave and determined get anywhere.If someone wants to bust a few more angles on a dummy,some side legs or a neck grove isn’t a big threat to trapping practice as a whole.Thanks for letting me rant.
While I’m in my jerky mood…
Originally posted by gou quan
We received a great deal of feedback from many, many martial artists at Dragonfest (including one well known WC teacher).
This is like the opposite of name dropping. Was Ashida Kim’s secret teacher also there?
The main criticism was that the body should be more round, in response to this we are now looking at going to the rounded front dummy… So in response to IronFist we will shortly be offering the dummy with a round front.
Four months later, dude, and no round front dummy on your website.
IronFist
Talking Dummies
Anyone tried the Pagoda dummy ? It says its made of sections of wood, its in a free standing frame (looks like the immortal framed dummy) and its only £325 (UK). They say they keep the price down by not using a solid body but offer a guarantee against breaking and splitting, anyone seen one or used it ?
Thanks
Originally posted by AdrianUK
[B]Talking Dummies
Anyone tried the Pagoda dummy ? It says its made of sections of wood, its in a free standing frame (looks like the immortal framed dummy) and its only £325 (UK). They say they keep the price down by not using a solid body but offer a guarantee against breaking and splitting, anyone seen one or used it ?
Thanks [/B]
Is there a link somewhere with pics?
Heres the link the Pagoda Site
http://www.woodendummies.co.uk/pagoda.htm
I thought the frame was free standing but its wall mounted, anyone got opinions on this ?
Gou Quan, affordable?
Take this has constructive criticism from a potential customer…
Why would I pay 600 dollars (which is not affordable), plus 75 dollars for shipping for a flat dummy when at Woodendummy.net, I could purchase a round PVC dummy WITH space-saving corner stand for 25 dollars more ($625 total vs. $674 total)??
Also, Woodendummy.net as well as other pages (Asheville, Sifu Joy’s site, etc) are Right-Click enabled. So if I wanted to show my sifu who didn’t have an Internet connection for his opinion of this Urban Dummy (sounds like the Urban Sombrero), I’d have more difficult time with screen prints. Why disable this feature? 
However, IE 6 can get around this problem.
Next
Regarding the Pogada dummy, my only concern is the extra joint in the leg seen here. Couldn’t it be angled in such a way that creates one less joint/stress point? Why is it needed? Any ideas?
I’d love to hear from those experienced folks out there…
Peace!
Mokujin
mok
"Why disable this feature? However, IE 6 can get around this problem. "
How can you get around it?
Re: Gou Quan, affordable?
Originally posted by Mokujin
Couldn’t it be angled in such a way that creates one less joint/stress point? Why is it needed? Any ideas?
I dunno. It looks like they just did it that way so the leg goes through the body at a more horizontal angle without having to change the actual angles of the leg (ie. the leg still sticks out of the dummy at the proper angle). While an extra joint does create more stress, maybe they had a reason to do it.
Normally, though, I would assume the leg would be one piece from the end that goes through the dummy to the knee joint. Then, one piece from the knee to the bottom.
Actually, that one might be one piece too. Look at the light strip that runs through the upper part. If it’s one piece I’m sure it’s strong. If it is actually 3 pieces (a new piece at every angle) then it’s probably weaker.
Mokujin check your email.
IronFist
That leg is weird. The angle that it goes through makes it look weird. Look in this pic:
Also, it looks like it touches the floor.
IronFist
I know, let’s email them. However, while we’ve ripped on some really crappy dummies in the past, this company, while not perfect, you have to admit has some of the better looking dummies considering what we’ve seen.
Crappy dummies have included:
The flat bodied ones
The square armed ones
The superman dummy
The weirdest one
etc.
So, because this company doesn’t suck too bad, I mean, they did do a good job lining up the upper arms… the left one isn’t 3 inches higher than the right one, let’s not be too mean if we email them.
IronFist
Stuff…
IronFist-
My onebox.com email is gone. I’ve updated my profile, so I should be able to get your email. Pls resend.
My point is they don’t need the extra joint because the angle they cut through the body for the leg can be the proper angle so only the trditional knee joint is needed. True- this company does look more legit than most of the wanna-be dummy companies.
Ironfist- did you make your leg or did Gaphetto at Asheville handle that?
Lay off the weird dummy, man. It took 5 years to develop!! It’s gotta be good!
Sunkuen-
With my IE6, if you hold your mouse cursor over an image, three little icons will appear. One of those icons is a disk. Click it and it allows you to save the image. I didn’t do anything special to enable this feature- it seems to be a default when I upgraded from 5.5 to 6.
Rene Ritchie-
What’s the history of the dummy? Wondering if there’s more than just the hall of training devices… Did that nun really invent it?
Thanks to all…
Gou Quan- still waiting for a response.
Mokujin
7* Mantis style dummy
I’m not sure about the “main” branch of 7 Stars praying mantis, but in the branch I study we use a special wooden dummy unlike the wing chun dummies I’ve seen.
Our dummy has no leg on it, has the traditional 3 arms, but instead of being wall mounted or having a stand of some sort, it is bolted to the ground.
How is this different? Well… it also spins at the base, so that if the person using the dummy goes faster than he can, he gets a smack from one of the arms. Makes for an interesting practice session if you lose focus for a second 
I’ve got to ask my Sifu for the design… it’s a pretty cool dummy, and I’d like to get my own for practice while at home.
Any of you seen/heard of similar types of dummies?
Hau Tien
Mokujin, Asheville made the limbs for my dummy.
IronFist
Re: 7* Mantis style dummy
Originally posted by Hau Tien
[B]I’m not sure about the “main” branch of 7 Stars praying mantis, but in the branch I study we use a special wooden dummy unlike the wing chun dummies I’ve seen.
…
Any of you seen/heard of similar types of dummies?
[/B]
In a book I saw a Mantis dummy once. It looked like a big cross with arms sticking straight out of the horizontal cross piece. But, it was a dark black and white picture so I couldn’t really tell more.
IronFist
History of the dummy? I’ve seen various accounts, including the Mook Jong Hall. One old article claimed it cam from the “mast dummy” taught to the Red Junk by an old coastal fisherman. Many stories say it was introduced as part of the Weng Chun Kuen system, along with the 6.5 pole.
WRT the Mantis Dummy, its my understanding this came about when the Chin Woo started sending representatives south and they came into Foshan and later Hong Kong, encountered WCK people, and thought it was a good piece of equipment to train with. (Note: WCK dummies were traditionally not mounted on supports or stands but were buried several feet into the ground and surrounded by loose earth).
Rgds,
RR
What really gets my goat (riding stance…wacka-wacka) is this type of advertising info that I’ve seen on a lot of dummy sites.
Each wooden dummy that Pagoda manufactures is handcrafted from the finest kilndried hardwood timbers available.
WHy don’t they tell exactly what kind of wood it is? Their idea of “the finest hardwood” might be plywood. Seems like a scam to me. I would want to know what kind of wood I am paying $600-1200 for. It’s sort of an important little detail quite a few places overlook.